Wisdom Rising

Beyond 'High Vibe': Shadow Work and Toxic Positivity

• Christine Renee, Isabel Wells, and Shantel Ochoa • Season 3 • Episode 14

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We’ve all heard the mantras: “Raise your vibration.” “Think positive.” “Manifest your dream life.” But what if these well-meaning ideas are keeping you stuck?

In this raw and transformative episode, Christine Renee and Shantel Ochoa take you beyond surface-level spirituality and deep into shadow work—where real healing, embodiment, and manifestation begin.

Together, they unravel how the mainstream Law of Attraction movement often skips the necessary step of shadow integration—leading to spiritual bypassing, guilt, and frustration when "high vibes" fall short. Rooted in their own experiences and insights from Shamanic practices, they explore the truth: that your anger, grief, fear, and shame aren’t blocks—they're portals.

🌀 What you’ll discover in this episode:

  • Why the Law of Attraction often fails without shadow work
  • How toxic positivity leads to spiritual bypassing
  • Shamanic perspectives on integrating the “shadow” self
  • How your shadow holds the key to authentic manifestation
  • The alchemy of turning pain into power
  • Stories of spiritual awakening that began in the dark
  • Conscious parenting & ancestral healing as spiritual pathways
  • Creating relationships that witness, not judge, your wholeness

If you’ve been doing all the “right” spiritual things and still feel disconnected, this episode is a wake-up call—and an invitation to go deeper.

✨ It’s time to stop bypassing your truth and start walking the real path of transformation. Press play now, and remember to subscribe, share, and leave a review if this resonates.

#ShadowWork #LawOfAttraction #SpiritualGrowth #Shamanism #Manifestation #HealingJourney #ToxicPositivity #AuthenticLiving

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Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule

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Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

Speaker 1:

It's time to remember your divine purpose and limitless potential. Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the official podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Rene, isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoa as we guide you on a journey of radical self-discovery and spiritual guidance. Each week we'll dance through the realms of shamanism, mysticism, energy, healing and personal development to illuminate your path to true healing and self-sourced wisdom Through weekly inspired conversations and interviews with leading spiritual and shamanic practitioners. We are here to help you acknowledge, reconcile and balance your energy so that you can awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome, welcome back to another amazing episode here on the Wisdom Rising podcast. In today's show, you'll join Christine Rene and Chantel Ochoa for their conversation on shadow work, law of attraction and toxic positivity. In today's episode, they're really diving into the myth of positive energy and why the trend of staying positive, staying high vibe, may actually be doing more harm than good. Along the way, they dive into their own experiences with shadow work and the importance of doing that so that manifestation, law of attraction etc. Can become so much easier and more aligned than when we're trying to shove those darker or heavier parts of ourselves down. They talk about the reality of vibration, the importance of non-judgment, conscious parenting and living a conscious life, and so much more. So if you are tired of hearing, just stay positive, just stay high vibe, raise your vibration and your life will get better. And you've tried that and feel like it worked for a time but then stopped. This episode is for you because today we're diving into the exact details of why it doesn't always work and why. Doing the shadow work, why acknowledging and witnessing the heavier parts of ourselves, or the wounded parts of ourselves, is actually the work that's going to allow us to alchemize our energy and become the fullest expression of who we were meant to be in this lifetime. So if you enjoy today's episode or you want to stay part of the conversation, don't forget to join us over in our Moon Rising Shamanic Mystics Facebook group.

Speaker 1:

We're a community of over 4,500 amazing individuals who are walking this path right alongside you, asking these questions, doing the shadow work, diving in deep and experiencing the magic of being alive. We also have our YouTube channel where you can find the video companion to today's podcast episode. And, of course, don't forget that we are currently in open enrollment for our Soul Rising Shamanic Reiki course. This is a four-month online course designed to help you walk the shamanic path, embrace all of who you are, release your past traumas and limiting beliefs so that you can rise into the fullest and highest expression of your soul's potential. Christine and Chantel share more about soul rising at the end of today's episode, so be sure to stay to the end if you're curious about that. But until then, we hope to see you in our Facebook group, and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and share it with everyone you know, so that we can reach more spiritual seekers just like you. With all of that said, let's go to the show.

Speaker 2:

Welcome, welcome back to our whispers of wisdom for today. Today's topic is something I'm really excited about. We're going to be talking about how positive vibes can be toxic and how shadow work really is the way towards our most authentic versions of ourselves, and I'm just really excited for a deep dive on this topic that has such polarity and contrast of like, what do these each mean, and why was there such a wave of positive vibes only, and why is it that people are finally figuring out wow, the real, true magic is in the shadow. Like I, I'm really looking forward to playing in that space, of getting curious and really diving in deep, because I think there's a lot of wisdom in this, and that's why we're here. We're here to bring you some of our whispers of wisdom. So thanks for joining with me. I've got Chantel Ochoa on with me this morning to dive into this conversation, so welcome, welcome.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, this conversation for me is very much like I think I've always worked in the shadow realm and when the whole love and light came up and very positive, I can vibe with that too. But I see the importance of walking the shadow realm and being in that journey with ourself, because we need our shadow to come up, one as our warrior at times in our life, but two, it's really where all of our trauma and everything is held right. So the moment we get triggered, it's how do we respond? How do we react to it? And so when we're working with it, to me this is when you really truly see where the authentic self is, for yourself and in others. You can always see where someone is in their shadow by their triggers and their responses filling into the vibration of their voice, how they communicate, and so it's. I don't think that we can be in just straight positivity all the time.

Speaker 2:

Right? Well, we're not. I honestly don't think that's being authentic to the full human experience, like I just can see, like my soul self, before coming to this world. And the question is, are you ready to feel all of it, all of the different emotions that the humans have capacity to experience, all the sensations that humans have the capacity experience, and having this full visceral yes, I want it all, right. And so that's the, that's the roller coaster ride of of the ups and the downs and the excitement and the terror and the grief and the happiness and the joy and the bliss, like it's all of it. And so when you it's like, do you know what it feels like, if you can imagine that roller coaster ride just being a swing up and a swing down, right, and so you have this wave pattern, if you're only available for those, the highs, they're going to be muted, they're not going to actually be to their fullest capacity, that fullness of bliss or ecstasy, because it doesn't have that, that you never experienced, the deepest of the low right. And so sometimes that swing can be too much, like we don't want to swing all the way down into a deep depressive state that we can never get out of. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, like, if we can feel the full range of the humanness of our emotions, what does that? What does that mean?

Speaker 2:

And I feel too that oftentimes that as humans, we're so ingrained in our culture and our society to mute whatever we're feeling, to suppress whatever we're feeling, and so, if it's something heavy, let's take anger, for example. No one wants to be around someone who's angry, right, like, that is our cultural norm. Like to view someone in their anger, to be in the presence of that, to see in the workplace or whatever it is. There's definitely a cultural unacceptance of that emotion.

Speaker 2:

But what if there was like, wow, you're feeling your emotion, feel it all the way through, process it and let's move the fuck on? Right, like, there's, there's a bit of like. What if we were actually in the motion, processing the motion so that we can move through it and and the the most efficient and healthiest way possible? Right, I think that's where you know whether it's like we're also capping our highs. Like if we're in our most state of ecstasy and going, wow, I can't really function and society blissed out all the time because that's not socially acceptable, right, like, I think there's the there's the same, there's like the two ends, and it's not like, if we're in that's in our fullness of who we are being really Like, if we're in that, in our fullness of who we are being really, truly authentic with our emotional state, how it can one be our superpower and we can really move energy through those valid, strong emotions, whatever they may be, and how we're going to be living our most authentic truth of who we are, because we're not suppressing anything.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly, and when we're able to feel it it really is. That is our superpower, right? I don't think we need to be constantly in those in our shadow work or there comes a point where you're like I'm not available for that anymore. You know, I'm tired of having toxic conversations. But at the same time, we do have to express our feelings and make like they are valid, right, and I love the swing of it because it is it's like for me. It's like I see it too as like the pendulum.

Speaker 3:

And how does the pendulum swing?

Speaker 3:

Do you feel? Extreme on one end and extreme on the other, right, and coming somewhat to that center point? So there is balance in between. But we can have our highs and our bliss and then we can have our shadow self. And to see that and say, okay, that is just as valid as being happy and filling into joy, right, right, and knowing you can't feel one without the other, and you also, it's like you can't be happy and feeling like you're sad and depressed either. So it's really matching up those frequencies and having the polarity like you're sad and depressed either.

Speaker 3:

So it's really matching up those frequencies and having the polarity like you're talking about and knowing that if I'm unpacking what I need to from the past, that is going to bring me into a lighter version. It's going to have be. You're going to be happier, you know, because you're removing all of that heavy emotion from yourself. And then that's the nuggets that we're talking about to then, whether you're in practice or you're communicating with family or however you're using that knowledge, it's going to benefit you in conversations and your relationships, because you're like, hey, I've been there, done that. Yeah, like this is where I've been. Maybe this is going to help you. And if not, you know people are going to walk their walk because that's what we got to do.

Speaker 2:

Right. So, yeah, it's absolutely true, like when we can have those those moments in our life that do feel heavy, that we have processed, that offers us a lot of compassion and empathy for others going through it Right. And so I see a lot of compassion in my life with people where they're at, and I I feel like too, it's like, just because we're having a heavy emotion, where, where's the shadow in that? Like? I think there's a piece of the shadow work that we need to really get, like I really want to dig into and going what aspect of myself, what part of myself, what archetype of myself, like whatever language you want to use around, that is a version of me, a part of me who needs to be seen, witnessed, heard, expressed, honored and loved on Right, and I think that that is what shadow work is.

Speaker 2:

So, even if we're feeling super freaking heavy because we're experiencing, let's say, grief, what part of myself is denying that version? Who's in their fullness of their grief? Right? And how can we, our light aspects of ourselves, meet our shadow oh my God, my tongue, oh my God, my tongue Aspects of ourselves? Right To really see and witness and honor that version and let that version have their moment, because if they're really seeing, heard, witnessed all of the things, then she's going to, or they're going to, come to a more steady space. They're not going to want to take, they're not going to come and sit full center and sit on your throne for very long, they just want to be like yo, witness me, hear me, see my version of what my life has experienced.

Speaker 2:

Look at all of this past, look at all of this heaviness, and once we allow that, that witnessing of it almost feels like shining a light on the shadow of like, yeah, take the freaking center stage, what do you need to show me? What do you need to teach me? What do I need to hear right now? And then, when they're they've exhausted that energy, then they're fine, taking a seat back and being like cool, I was heard, I was witnessed. The parts of all of the other parts of me has witnessed me, and now I'm good now and I can take that step back Right, and I think that, like that little dance that we do internally, is so important.

Speaker 3:

It really it is and what's also is, when we don't see that it spirals back again and again, and again and I know that we talk about that here how is it showing up for you again, and do you want to keep going through those same experiences? Because at some point it is so much easier to do the dance and do the walk and to witness and see and everything all the aspects of ourself versus just letting the experiences keep cycling back through and creating chaos in our life. Because shadow is all about chaos as well, and so we're not giving it the attention it needs to ourself and doing that self-care, self-nurturing and the healing aspect of our shadow self. It's just going to keep giving us the same experiences and then there's no real lessons learned, because then it becomes the why me and why does my life always show up like this? Because you're not looking at the part of you that needs to be healed and to unpack all of that. You're just cycling back through it again and the universe is just going to keep showing it to you and so, as that's coming forward, it's like be aware of that.

Speaker 3:

The moment we have that self-awareness, it becomes a choice. At that point You're choosing to go through those cycles. You're choosing to hold on and repack all that, or you have the choice then to say I see you, I can heal through this and I can step into a stronger version of ourself. Because that's what ultimately occurs. You do your shadow work, you rise. Then the happiness and the joy can come, and it's coming from that authentic place of self. You know.

Speaker 2:

What is just coming to mind is that I feel like all of this real like high vibe, positive light only, versus you know being authentic, being true, coming into a space of honoring our fullness of our emotions, the shadow, all of the things. That also is kind of the way collective consciousness has come around in the last like 30 years, and so I'm witnessing this like there's a reason why there was a good chunk of time, good decade, in there. That was like positive vibes only really love and light only Like I remember and I can see it in myself of like remember writing my signature, love and light, like, instead of sincerely, or like what I do now is like ecstatically yours, cause that's really my authentic truth, like I'm, I love living life ecstatically Right. And so we have this love and light version of the spiritual community and it really I feel like it came because of the secret, the movie, the secret, the book, the secret, the, the when law of attraction really came to the forefront and really starting to understand like frequencies and energies and all this stuff, and there's so much validity to that. And then there's also an and but right, and I, and I just noticed how there was that huge swing of like okay, I'm just going to, you know, fake it till I make it and I'm going to just put on a happy smile and I'm just going to fake it until I make it and I'm going to just put on a happy smile and I'm going to laugh through my life and I'm not going to give in to any kind of negativity and I'm just going to suppress all of that and I'm going to spiritually bypass that.

Speaker 2:

And what happened wasn't this huge shift in the world of positive vibes.

Speaker 2:

Only, no one is magically manifesting shit left and right all of the time, because you can't actually be in the full vibration of love and authenticity if you haven't met your shadow right.

Speaker 2:

There is an alchemization that needs to occur to be able to really be. Because here's the thing, like if you say an affirmation, for example, like money flows easily and frequently to me like that was, like super and that that very popular, and then people were like, well, why isn't this working? I'm like because there's part of you that's calling bullshit. That part that's calling bullshit is your shadow aspect of yourself that needs to be seen, that needs to be heard, that needs to get angry, that needs to show up in its grief of its childhood where money was so scarce. We need to do the fullness of the work until you can come to a point of like oh look, I don't feel like I need to call bullshit anymore, because that shadow aspect of me is has been fully seen and heard it I it's validated. And now when I say money comes to me easily and frequently, there's not a part, an aspect of myself that's calling BS.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, it totally does. It totally does. And so it's when we trust in ourself, because there's that trust, but because the work has been done leading up to it. There is no bullshit being called. It's like yeah, and that is. I can claim that because I own it in myself, I feel it and trust it in myself because I've worked through the scarcity, I worked through this or that or whatever, and so I feel it too is it's like the busting through.

Speaker 3:

We were in so many like dark eras prior to the secret coming up that I think it's like we also, as a collective, needed to be lifted up, and it was like we were going to go up on that high now and see who catches it, and then see where we ride.

Speaker 3:

And now we're on that downswing of where it's like okay, and now we're back into our shadow self, and so it's the waves of the world and our collective consciousness too, right. But with our experience here and what we're talking about is doing the shadow work helps us to stay in that light and love and helps us to stay in the high vibration because we've done the work, we've walked through the shadows, we've risen from the ashes, you know, we're spreading our wings. We've become the phoenix and so that is that part of it. But it takes a lot of inner work and awareness to say I got this, I'm going to go do that work, and so it is. But I do see what you're saying with how that has shifted in our society and everyone did run with that. Yeah, but I don't think people knew how to do the manifestation in the beginning and now people are starting to learn.

Speaker 2:

But it can be. It's a tricky spot for sure for a lot of people. We rode the wave and now in that like more heavier space, it's like we can get pissed off for a good reason and purpose, like if we're seeing injustice in the world, there's more people who are willing to call it out. We're not going to turn a blind eye as easily Like we're willing to get messy to make sure that we're showing up in our, our more more authentic version of who we are. And because we have had this generational switch of from you know, generations past of like don't speak unless spoken to and don't be seen and not heard, like we had that like really like silencing of our, of our, of generations, of our, of our of generations. And now it's like because there is more more parents out there that are willing to emotionally accept their children the way they are and be able to support them and their real needs and not just teach them how to suppress their emotions, I feel like we have new generations coming forward, like even in my parents. My parents are like really young boomers, but they're still boomers, right, and I was very much in a household that that promoted conversations. I didn't get grounded. We had conversations. Yeah, it was sprinkled with all kinds of Catholic guilt, but they were conversations and not like authoritarian court, like corporal punishment, right, like I got a crying mom who would make me feel guilty and then we would talk about it for two hours, about of our emotions and have some type of after effect, right Like it was. It was never, um, you cross this boundary, go to your room. We're not talking about like that whole thing.

Speaker 2:

Like I think I feel like there's a shift because now I'm raising my kids differently. I think there's definitely a uh. I think with a lot of parents not all parents you definitely see that there there's still a huge contrast in parenting but there is definitely more positive gentle parenting or attachment theory, like scientifically a based understanding of psychology and the way we're raising our kids that are is now more accepted than it was 20 years ago. That therapy is more accepted now than it was 20 years ago. Like there's a huge movements toward self care, right, and so it's like now if you say, hey, I have a therapist, it's not like you're instantly getting shamed like you would have 20, 30 years ago. 20, 30 years ago, if I said, yeah, I have a therapist people would be oh, what's wrong with you, right Versus? Now it's like oh, I'm seeing this there's oh, I've seen this one. What are you focusing on? I'm focusing on EMDR, like it's like the conversation has changed because doing the work is now acceptable.

Speaker 3:

Right and it's the uh restricted parenting versus like conscious parenting.

Speaker 3:

And I know there's gentle parenting, um, personally, I prefer more like conscious parenting because I feel like with that you're really, um, you're seeing them from the awareness of the level that they're at. I think in gentle parenting sometimes it's letting them be a lot in their emotions, but I mean, that's not our conversation. But I do think that with conscious parenting, I watch my daughter and I find it so amazing because she's really the one that is breaking the generational trauma in my family. So it's like I start that with her but I brought in a lot breaking the generational trauma in my family. So it was like I started that with her but I brought in a lot of the parenting trauma that I received from mine. You know my mom was a geller and you know there was just certain things that we had in my household. Right, conversation wasn't always like a sit down for in my household and but when I was raising my kids, I started integrating that, I started bringing that in and it was like let's have our conversations, even if it's like we're doing our makeup and doing our hair, and we're having a conversation, versus like a sit-down, serious conversation. It was more in flow and kind of a light situation, but she is so powerful in it and I just watch her with my granddaughters and even yesterday I was on FaceTime with her and the youngest one is trying to sit on the toilet and eat her waffle.

Speaker 3:

And she's like no, you need to go over there, take your waffle If you want to sit on the toilet because she was brushing her teeth or whatever. If you want to sit on the toilet, then you need to go put your food out of the bathroom. And she dropped down. She's eye to eye with her two-year-old, she's explaining it and then she's just. And then she has the stern part of her like Ivy, no, give me your waffle if you want to sit there, or come over here by the door and stand there. And Ivy's like okay, she gave her her two choices.

Speaker 3:

She went and stood by the door and she ate her waffle and she was totally fine and moved on and I was like wow, I was so impressed with her because as a mom her mom I would have been like go get out of there, take your waffle out of the bathroom.

Speaker 3:

And that isn't. She is teaching me how this is such a beautiful way of having that parent-child relationship and I'm just so impressed and it's like that is absolutely the movement I feel that we're coming into as far as parenting goes, because a lot of parents are working through their shadow and they're seeing in their little ones the pain that they had and that they went through, and so now we can, as parents, as grandparents, step into that role in a completely different way and say my shadow self does not need to show up here. I need to heal this part of me so I can help raise you in a way that is more light, less trauma, less karma attached. You know, like all those things don't need to happen, but it's because we ourselves are coming to a conscious level of understanding what it means to raise little ones.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I love that and I see that happening for sure. And so, yeah, I think there's a continuation, there's a shift, consciously, and I think, because there's so much acceptance of doing the work, like it can be done, and I love that we have programs like soul rising that is going to give you the structure of, like you're ready to do the work and you don't know where to start, like let's deep dive. You're like I think there are so many opportunities to go. How do I want to explore my own shadows? How do I want to explore my limiting beliefs? How do I want to explore the heaviness that I carry so that I can remove what no longer serves me? Right, I think there's a lot of pieces of our shadow that serves us. Right, there's a reason why they right, there's so much that they're. They're there to to keep it real, to allow you to to stay safe and dangerous situations Like there's a reason why they've developed.

Speaker 2:

And how do we come to a place of integration that you're accepting all of who you are, of your light and all of it Like that? I think that's it. How do we accept all of it, that you are not just a beaming bright light of of you know, sparkly energy, like, yeah, it's amazing when we can be, but there's so, but we're more dynamic than that. We're meant to be more dynamic than that. And personally, it's like I feel like I have so much, uh, excitement around utilizing my emotions as my superpower. Excitement around utilizing my emotions as my superpower Like I feel like I have spent years suppressing, like certain relationships in my life were very much like don't express your emotions because I can't handle it Right. Like it was the partner of me, like I can't handle you in your fullness of my emotions. Like if I'm like right now I feel like I'm in my most emotionally authentic phase I've ever been in and that means I cry, probably on average five times a week right, not that at times you're like it's the time.

Speaker 2:

It just might, I just let it hit me when it hits me. Sometimes it's tears of joy, sometimes it's like tears of frustration, sometimes it's tears of like sadness, like whatever it is. I want to feel what I feel when I feel it right. So like last night, for example. I live in a co-housing community. Last night was my night to support making dinner for our community and we had 30 people signing up, which is a huge percentage of our community, and we're making rice and dahl, very simple meal.

Speaker 2:

And two of the members of my goat club come in and was like Christy, I know this is a bad time, but we need to talk to you. I'm like, yeah, simple meal, everything's set up. What do you need to talk to me about? And they were like we wanted to let you know that one of the goats died this afternoon and when, knowing that we have this dinner tonight, when do you want us to announce it? And I sat with it for a moment because this is like. I have taken care of the goats now for over four years and you know, losing one of our animals is always hard and heavy and I, I just I came to the conclusion very quickly that if we can eat together, we can grieve together, and so I wanted to have that announcement sent as soon as possible. And then I was going to make a live announcement at the beginning of dinner and it's, it's those moments of like here I am announcing to the community and, yeah, I've, I'm choking up, I'm getting tears and allowing it to happen, allowing people to see that this is acceptable to be emotional about. And there's definitely children in our community that they were told so that they could move on with their life.

Speaker 2:

And like, not necessarily emotionally processed, my daughter was devastated, right, she quietly ate her meal. And then she, after she was done eating, and she was like, can I be excused? I, I need to go hang out with some of the neighbor's dogs so that I can process. And I'm like, so that I can process. And I'm like, yeah, girl, go do what you need to do. And like I am just love that, like she can be in the motion. She was, she was shocked, she, she had emotions, she knew how she wanted to process. And today she's like writing, she's doing artwork to process, like all of those things. It's just like if we're going to be in our fullness, like when something happens, let's feel it, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, feel it. Feel it, yeah. And for her to know what she needed at 11, 12 years old. You know, for her to understand like I'm feeling sad and I need to go and take care of me in this way, right, and you not say no, you need to sit at the table and wait for everyone to be done, like back in the day, you know, going back to that because that is how it used to be and you just say no, you need to go do what you need to do and that allows her to go work with what she needs to do with her grief, and that allows her to go work with what she needs to do with her grief, fill all her emotions and that's not going to create a shadow self, right, right, because that's really how all these shadows show up. Is when we're restricted and suppressed by the adults or those that we see as an authority of us. Is when we know what we need to do, at whatever age it is, and then we're told no, know what we need to do at whatever age it is, and then we're told no. And I'll have to say, throughout my entire life well, into my adult life that has been a lot of my shadow work is being told no, and I'm over here like, uh-uh, I'm going to prove to you, yes, I'm going to prove to you that I can. And so I've been running that for the majority of my life and now I can be like so I've been running that for the majority of my life and now I can be like I don't need to take your no, I can go do my yes, whether you like it or not, right, and prove it and be okay with that.

Speaker 3:

This last week I actually had some conversations I had to have with some people and on the shadow self, it wanted to create this big old story around it. How was I going to have these conversations? How were they going to turn out? Did I even want to? Did I want to run and just be like, nope, I'm going to go do this somewhere else, you know, kind of thing. And in the moment when I actually had them, it was really beautiful and I don't even think they even knew where I was even coming from.

Speaker 3:

But just because I was authentic in how my approach was, one teared up and was just like I love you and gave me hugs, and I was like, oh, wow, that was a trip, because it was just like I am so happy to hear your laugh, that was it that literally melted whatever there was that was brewing up, and it wasn't so much between me and this person, it was what this person was going through, and the boundaries went up and the walls went up because they were going through levels of grief. And so instead of me being like, oh well, if you're going to act like this, I'm going to act like that, which is what our shadow self does, a reflection of each other. I was like, no, I am going to come in on that lighter side. So I was able to do that in that one and really just healed that, which was beautiful. And then another conversation I had to have was very interesting, was kind of the same thing Competition, no.

Speaker 3:

And then, through my own processing of it, I went to her and was like we don't need to, let's just collaborate it. Oh, okay, even though you're doing, you know, one version of the ceremony and I'm doing another, we can marry them, we can combine them and collaborate it. Our community doesn't need to choose between one or the other. And now that's what we're doing, but I have learned how to, in my shadow do that work of processing? Because the shadow work was me sitting at my house, reeling through it of all the different outcomes that could have happened and was I pissed, was I this, was I that? And in the moment I was like, no, I don't want to be there. I was good because I did my work, but it took a few days, which is really what you know when we work with ourself.

Speaker 2:

Your daughter is working with her grief, she's hit with something she can go fill into that and go do her work and come back and be like, okay, I've processed you know, yeah Well, it's so funny because, before we jumped on this call, I'm flipping through my notebook and I have this note here that some people try to dim your light because your light exposes things hidden in their shadows they don't want to see, right?

Speaker 2:

I think this is where it comes to how we mirror in relationships our lack of willingness to see our own shadow relationships, our lack of willingness to see our own shadow.

Speaker 2:

It's going to be reflected in our relationships because you're going to, you're going to meet that energy, Right, and I I love that your story really reflects that of like nope, I'm going to sit with it, I'm going to work through my limiting beliefs or my stories, my shadow showing up in this way, and then, when I need to actually have the conversation, I'm able to do it in such a way that invites vulnerability. I'm inviting a place to have authentic conversations. I'm inviting a place to be real, because when we're real which I believe that that authenticity is such a higher vibration than even love, right, Like this is where that love and light you know love and light only I'm like there's a, there's even a stronger version, and that's going to be your authentic truth. And then that authentic truth. You're. You're saying look, I'm willing to speak my authentic truth, and then the people that you're in relation with relationship with are going to show up more available to be in their authentic truth.

Speaker 3:

Right, yeah, yeah, exactly, you know. And the thing when I sat with it, I realized that what was coming up was that inner child of not feeling accepted by the group. And in the end I realized, when I did the work and had the conversations, I've always been accepted. It was my own fear, my own BS in my own head that was creating something that wasn't even there and they were possibly feeling the exact same thing I was feeling. So me coming forward, just let their inner child realize that they were accepted as well. Right, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Hello, do the work. It's so good, it's so worth it. Like, it's so interesting, like right now I have. I've been working through a limiting belief of like, fear of rejection, fear of judgment, right Of like I am invited to do this activity and I'm worried that I'm going to be like my inner child has just completely been freaking out for a couple of months and like I'm not doing it, there's no way I'm going to do that. I'm not going to be seen that way, like et cetera, et cetera. And so we're teaching this masterclass, Isabel and myself.

Speaker 2:

And last week Isabel led us through a coaching journey experience on looking at our limiting beliefs and why we have them and really understanding where are they coming from and what's the benefit of holding onto this limiting belief to the point where you go through this exercise and this is something that we include in our soul rising program as well, because we are all about diving into the shadow work and figuring out your limiting beliefs. Then I got to the end because I was I was participating like a student. I was like oh my God, it's all false, it's all false. And as soon as I could see it as false, then I could stop with my self-sabotaging behavior. Then I could start going, oh, I can do that thing, because now that what was that comfort zone edge is now pushed way out, because I believe that I'm going to be fully accepted, loved and embraced by doing this activity, even if I mess it up, because there's no such thing as failure in this activity, right? So how could I be judged, how could I be shamed, how could I be by this other person If that's not how they have ever shown up in my life like they're? Of course they're not going to, right. And so I was able to kind of utilize this exercise and that's what we can come back again and again and again.

Speaker 2:

Like I taught Isabel this exercise like five years ago, right, and now she's this one of her favorite coaching modalities of really understanding our limiting beliefs and she loves working through it. And so when we were trying to decide who was going to teach this in class last week, I was like, oh, you know, I haven't really done the exercise in probably a few years. She's like, oh, my God, it's one of my favorites. I'm like, well, you lead that. Then, like you, you go, shine your light, you do it, I'll participate. And it was it.

Speaker 2:

The class went amazing. It was such in flow and I really benefited from taking a step back and those moments and just being a participant and working my way through it and going, oh my gosh, I got this Right and I just I love too that that's even as co-facilitators, as co-teachers, because we're a team. We get to play in that space of hey, if I I'm really good and solid in this modality and like, are you comfortable in that? Like we're checking to see is your shadow side being triggered? If I take the lead on this Right, like there's some of that going on and going, where can I show up so authentically of going you know what? I can see that part of myself and I can also see why, like this is going to be better if you do it. Like all of that is happening because we're so aware as a team and willing to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

Right, I think that so often that you have groups and communities that aren't really willing to to feel their emotions and going there and doing little self-checks, like is there anything being triggered by this? Is there anything being activated? How am I feeling with this idea? And then going and then coming and having conversations and coming to a conclusion that's going to feel good for everyone, right? Like, just like you did, like you came to your, your partner. You were being vulnerable, you were being authentic and you came to like, oh, we should be collaborating. It sounds like what if? What if there was no fear of competition, that fear of scarcity, and we all just show up in collaboration with one another, often, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that was exactly it. It's like why are we trying to separate two events in one night that actually work together? That made you know, made no sense to me, because you have a little bit of a different approach than I do. That's okay. Let the community have both sides with, like co-workers and stuff. I think that's why there's so much toxicity is because there aren't open conversations to work things out. It's everyone just suppresses and suppresses and then they feel like they're showing up and having to put a mask on and that's the shadow. Then they go home and they're angry at home and they're angry with their family and they take it out in the home place because work is so stressful and it's like no, do the work in the moment. So when you go home, you're not unloading and doing this toxicity in the house, right? You're not doing your purging there, and so it really is coming to self.

Speaker 3:

I saw a comment the other day and I thought it was so great and I said I need to stop expecting myself and others and I thought, oh, my gosh. And for me what that meant was we expect others to see everything from our lens, our perspective, right, that one point of view, and it's like no, everybody has their own perspective of it. You know, if we're all looking at one thing and we're standing in a circle, none of us are going to see that one object from the same point of view. And that's the same thing with situations and conversations Everybody is interpreting it from their lens of scope, and so when we can come to a conversation, realizing they probably are not seeing it exactly like you, are that right, there is a touch ground to start a conversation. You know like, okay, are you seeing it this way, because this is the way I mean it, and how are you seeing it versus my expression of it? Yeah, right, and just letting it open up from there, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I, um, I'm really enjoying conversations that where you can show up in your desire, show up in your fear, show up in your boundaries, show up in these authentic conversations, because when you each have a chance to fully communicate well, we're going to go into really some deep places where it's going to have a positive benefit because we can see it's like that third eye space of perception how are we perceiving the world, how are we perceiving this person? And really taking the perception of and shining the light on yourself, like, where is it in me that feels like I'm holding myself back? Where does it feel? What are the emotions I'm feeling? What? How is this making like and going through it?

Speaker 2:

And I think it's so important and I just absolutely love the container that we create and so rising because everyone feels that it's a container.

Speaker 2:

It's a container to fully express and be validated and whatever their experience is and so I, even those first few classes on how to shamanic journey, everyone's having a very different experience, right, everyone's having a.

Speaker 2:

Some people are like ease and flow, they're seeing, feeling things, and others it's just like still a blank slate and going all of it's okay, all of it's okay. Whatever emotions are coming up from this. It's working or not, working place is okay and we're creating this foundation of safety, of like, feel whatever it feels like to feel like a fraud, to feel like insecure, to feel amazing and happy that it's working for you, whatever that emotion is, show up in it, working for you. Like, whatever that emotion is like, show up in it. And this is such a place where everything is okay and you're going to have a mentor, a facilitator, in that space to give you the space that you need to fully express yourself and keep the class on track and keep moving forward Right Like. There's this beautiful balance that, as facilitators, that we learn to play with, to like, yeah, we want to make sure you have your voice and if, if, there's more needed in that, we have so many resources. We have so many resources in that.

Speaker 3:

Just love it it's. It's a beautiful place to have a really strong container to step out of your comfort zone, and so that's it. It's like we get so comfortable in our places in life, right, what our status is, what our emotional balance is, whatever it is so we get so comfortable that when the stretch and challenge comes and it invokes that shadow self and we're like I don't know what to do with this. And it invokes that shadow self and we're like I don't know what to do with this, that it's like you've got to look it in the eye and say I see you and I'm ready to do this work. And it can be a really scary place for people when they are just trying to live a very love and light kind of experience, and I think that we come from that.

Speaker 3:

So here in this, this is the divality, the polarity of it. We are here to work with the shadow. We're here to work through all of the things that have come through in this lifetime past lifetimes, all of it relationships and conversations that it's okay to step out of our comfort zone and do what we need to do so that we can feel comfortable in all the areas of our life instead of feeling like every little thing is going to trigger me, Like how exhausting that feels when you're so stuck in your shadow that you feel like every single conversation is going to invoke some kind of trigger in you that you can't handle. And then you're just like, ah, ah, all the time it's like no, I want to embrace this. And even with myself it's like I was having a conversation earlier, before this, and I'm like I don't have time for this conversation right now, but I can have it later.

Speaker 3:

So I put it on the shelf for a minute and I said I'll come back to it, and it wasn't a negative conversation, but it's just trying to see the viewpoints from both sides. Let me come back to that and now I can go and process it and then show up and different. But I'm like my shadow sees your shadow. In the end, that's what I'm getting out of our conversation right now is my shadow is seeing his shadow, and so instead of being like I see you, let's just work through this. It's that butting of heads. Okay, well, let's step back for a second. You do your shadow work, I'll do mine, and we'll come back and figure out what we both learned from it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, and I think, what if the world was like that? Right, like that's what I'm talking about. Like the highest vibe, the most authentic version? That's what I'm talking about, like the highest vibe, the most authentic version. What if those were our conversations on the regular? Of going, wow, I recognize that my inner child is being triggered this way when you show up like this and my desire is to have this type of experience, and these are my fears and this is my boundaries Like I want to talk about this for a half an hour and then I'm probably going to need a break. Like, whatever your boundary is, and being able to fully communicate, that Like. I think this is why having these experiences of coming to a place where we can more fully communicate, more fully, being able to be in relationship right, relationship with ourself and right, relationship with others Right.

Speaker 2:

But it all has to start within. If we can't, if we can't look within, we can't look and recognize what's happening in other people. We have to start with our self-work, ourself digging into what's going on there. And if we've spent so much of our life refusing to look at those parts of ourself, then how are we ever going to have the relationships that we truly desire and want to attract. Right Like I had someone in my community. Right Like, basically, to the point of I'm never going to find my perfect partner, I'm never going to find my soulmate, because everything I attract is so messed up and I'm like timeout, timeout. Become your own lover, become your own soulmate. Love yourself so much that you love all of you so that you don't reduce your standards and attract something that's not worthy of your time and attention. Right Like there's so much work that we can do for ourselves. And loving all of our pieces. Loving our shadow how can we expect someone else to love our shadow if we can't love our shadow? Right, and so when we start doing the deep dive in the work of recognizing our limiting beliefs and where they came from, recognizing where our shadows and what they're trying to communicate and how they want to show up and how they want to be seen and what their message is for us, and loving on it anyway, that's when we are going to attract, we're going to manifest, we're going to show up in the world of like this is who I am in my self-worth, my self-respect, my self-love. And if the relationships in my life can't reflect that back. I'm not available for it, right? And so that is what we're consistently trying to help support our students in, right? Is that? How can we develop that fullness of my self-love, self-respect and self-worth? And so often we haven't spent enough time in that area.

Speaker 2:

And I was just teaching a chakra activation day retreat on Saturday locally and I kept going back to this is why the lower three are so important and this is why our spiritual community often bypasses them. All of our stuff. First, three chakras yes, yeah, right, it's got. We have to focus on these. Like, there's so much like let's develop our clairvoyance, let's talk to our past lives, let's do these really. Crown chakra, third eye chakra, standpoint, and I'm like and how messy is it going to get If you don't know which, where your shadow is showing up in all of that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it is so important. I had a similar conversation this weekend too, during level one. I had a similar conversation this weekend too, during level one, and so in the class portion we spoke about that and then when we did, I did the attunement. So I had four students and three of them came out like, oh, my gosh, amazing. And then the third, the fourth one came out with, oh, I saw all kinds of like dark things and all this stuff, right, well, interesting, and my vision. I saw that.

Speaker 3:

So I knew somebody in the group was having some really heavy transmutating, like they were transmuting energy, and so I told her I said don't worry about it, you're unpacking what needs to be unpacked so that this energy can regulate within your system. Right, so she went home this morning I woke up to a text from her saying I almost called you today to tell you how sad I was that that was my experience versus everyone else's experience. But last night when she went to bed, she had the energy come through. So she said she heard some noise and then she felt like she needed to roll over. And once she rolled over, she felt that she saw this light come through all of her chakras and it moved and she had her like a kundalini awakening and all this stuff started happening for her and it was like, yes, because you sat in your shadow work, you sat in the darkness of that and you released it. And when you released it, it let everything else come through you. And so now she's in a whole different state of mind. But it's like yeah, and I told her and I said, and this is just the beginning, so how wonderful is that? But she is introduced to her darkest, deepest self through her transition into the light version of her. Now she really gets to be embodied in that and it's like congratulations.

Speaker 3:

And I always tell people when they come to me and they're in the middle of their awakening, and I'm like congratulations. And they're like what? Because to them it's so heavy. And I'm like, yeah, but look at what the work you're doing right now and look what you're being introduced to right, like you wouldn't be coming here if you weren't ready for change and healing and transformation. And it's the shadow that pushes us that way. It's not the love and light version of us that makes us go do the healing and the deep, radical healing. It is the shadow that's got the foot on the ass going. Go do this work. Go figure out who you are. And when you figure out who you are, you can be in balance and you can show up and be able to support others and theirs.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I had a similar experience with a person who just listened to our new freebie. So, if you haven't seen this, we're offering a free two-part webinar series one to do a shamanic journey to meet your power animal and then another one to do a shamanic journey to meet your spirit guide. And the first one is to meet your power animal. And she journeyed and was in primal screaming and just hurt like lots of darkness. And I'm like, and now she has this opportunity to come back and be like what was that about? Let's talk about that. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, let's do a little support, a little mentorship, because there's so much there. That is a invitation to go in deeper and explore. Why is my subconscious showing up this way? Right, and so know that if we'll put it in the show notes, but if you have not seen that freebie that we have, I am really trying to get it out to everyone, everyone who's available for it. So I messaging folks, I'm putting it on Facebook posts because it is brilliant and you know, I, um, I watched the webinar myself and it's it's both Isabel and Chantel offering the webinar series, and Isabel is so beautiful in her explanations and calling in directions and then Chantel does the guided meditation. I was like this is fucking brilliant, like this is such a good presentation. I was like so excited and filled with joy that this is what we're giving out, like this is some of our most beautiful work that we can offer and we're offering it to you as a freebie because it is brilliant, it is lovely and you are going to experience something when you listen to it. You're going to feel not only the way we explain and teach and how we like offer lessons, but you're also going to have this spiritual experience of meeting your power animal. And if it doesn't work the first time, that's okay. You can listen to it again and again and and have a different experience every time you come back to it with new, fresh eyes. And so it's also something that really, if you love the way it flows and the way we present and the way we facilitate, know that this is like a really lovely taste of what you're going to see inside our four-month program, soul Rising. And really it's closer to five months container, because we take breaks for winter break and we take breaks for Thanksgiving and we really are totally in it with you guys and I'm just so excited to share the freebie. I'm so excited for soul rising and start.

Speaker 2:

We start on September 14th and I'm just going to cover a couple of my most frequently asked questions, because I get them all the time. It's a three to four hour commitment a week. It has both live calls, pre-recorded lessons, guided meditations, activating actions. We have a companion workbook. We're really trying to allow you to get all of the possible information that is going to serve you in encountering that shadow, alchemizing it, working through it, your limiting beliefs, your spiritual development, your personal, all of it Like it's in this container and we're going to move through the first four chakras. So, juha, just a minute ago I said the three are so important.

Speaker 2:

We're covering it, we're doing a deep dive while you learn how to shamanic journey, to build out your spirit team right.

Speaker 2:

So your power animals, your spirit guides, and really having relationship with them, so that you, at the end of the program, you no longer need to come to me, to a facilitator, to a guru, to a teacher, to anyone else with your spiritual questions.

Speaker 2:

You will go to your power animal, to your spirit guide, and be like I need support on this topic and have it readily available to you through your own lens, through your own wisdom, through your own divine connections, and that is the empowerment we offer our students and I'm just so absolutely excited to be offering that starting September 14th.

Speaker 2:

So if you're ready to join with us, we'll have that in the show notes as well and really, really, really excited. I hope you will take a look at our website, really feel into a sea of soul rising is for you and know that we have a ton of information on both the website over at moonrisinginstitutecom backslash, soul dash rising, as well as our YouTube and our podcast and our. All of these places and spaces are giving you a taste of what we offer inside of soul rising. So if you're ready to do a deep dive in your personal self-healing work, to come meet your shadow, to alchemize to, to really have that transformational experience that's going to work for you, join us over there and anything else to add to that Chantel before we do.

Speaker 3:

No, I think that was beautifully said. I was like, wow, look at you. That was great. I'm so excited it is. And I just feel like, yes, come see us on the inside, because there's so much medicine in Soul Rising that there's magic and medicine and work and rituals and ceremony and the journey, work and coming back to self and knowing we are our own guru and we are our own master. Right, and we do need mentors in our life at points. But then there comes a point where, yeah, you can go to your own self-sourced wisdom and your team and say, okay, what do we need to do here and now? And that's exactly what it is. It's a beautiful foundation to help you grow within yourself and to elevate and do all of the work.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, and so if you are like I'm interested, I have questions, jump on a free call with me and I'm happy to show you the backend, show you the coursework, go over any of your questions. Know that we develop the calendar based on your availability, which is unlike almost any other program out there. We're going to send you a call survey to figure out when you're available so that we schedule a time that we can make sure that you can come to at least one call a week. So, with all of that said, I love you, I adore you. I'm so proud of you for doing the shadow work, I'm so proud of you for getting curious, and until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for tuning in to today's show. The Wisdom Rising podcast is sponsored by Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, facebook, youtube and TikTok at Moon Rising Institute, or visit our website, moonrisinginstitutecom to learn more about our mission and find future opportunities to connect with our community of shamanic mystics. Once again, thank you for sharing space with us today and until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.