Wisdom Rising

Connecting with Nature Through the Shamanic Spiritual Realms

• Christine Renee, Isabel Wells, and Shantel Ochoa • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Experience the transformative power of Nature through Shamanic perspectives. In this episode of Wisdom Rising, you'll discover how connecting with the Lower World, one of three spiritual realms in Shamanism, can bring profound healing and new perspectives into your life. In this episode, Christine and Shantel share their personal stories and practical tips on how to incorporate these Shamanic practices into your daily routine, emphasizing harmony and balance as essential components of your spiritual journey.

This episode takes you on a journey into deeper understanding and harmony with Mother Earth. With engaging discussions around grounding and forest bathing, supported by ancient wisdom and modern science alike, we explore the vital role of power animals and tree spirits in guiding us toward personal growth and healing. We illustrate how these symbols can transform our fears and misconceptions about Nature, offering us guidance and support through simple practices like visualization and connecting with tree spirits.

Whether you're in a bustling city or surrounded by nature, this episode invites you to find your unique way to say yes to the healing potential of the natural world. From walking barefoot to inviting natural elements into your home, these practices help establish a meaningful relationship with nature. Engage with us and our community in the Moon Rising Shamanic Mystics Facebook group as we continue to awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising within. Don't miss the chance to like, subscribe, and share this journey with others, ensuring that the path to spiritual exploration is ever-growing and enriching.

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
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Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute

Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule

Book a FREE 15 minute connect call with Izzy: https://calendly.com/moonrisinginstitute/connect

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

Speaker 1:

It's time to remember your divine purpose and limitless potential. Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the official podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine René, isabel Wells and Chantelle Ochoa as we guide you on a journey of radical self-discovery and spiritual guidance. Each week, we'll dance through the realms of shamanism, mysticism, energy, healing and personal development to illuminate your path to true healing and self-sourced wisdom Through weekly inspired conversations and interviews with leading spiritual and shamanic practitioners. We are here to help you acknowledge, reconcile and balance your energy so that you can awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast. I'm your host for today, isabel Wells, and I'm excited to introduce today's episode with Christine Rene and Chantel Ochoa on healing through nature and connecting with the lower world.

Speaker 1:

As we continue our exploration of shamanism here on the podcast and over in our Facebook group, moon Rising Shamanic Mystics, we want to bring awareness to another area of this transformative practice engaging with the spiritual realms. The lower world is one of three spiritual realms and it holds the energy of nature, mother earth, our power animals and so much more. When we connect with the lower world, we connect with nature herself. In this conversation, christine and Chantel will explore how we can engage with nature herself. In this conversation, christine and Chantel will explore how we can engage with nature from a shamanic perspective, calling on the lower world energies to invite in new perspectives and healing. They'll discuss how to work with nature in our waking lives and explore the importance of balance and harmony on this spiritual healing path. Along the way they share their own stories of healing with nature through the shamanic perspective, as well as give tips and techniques to help you bring in nature healing into your own life. So, without further ado, I hope you enjoy today's episode. Let's dive in.

Speaker 2:

This kind of goes right over into our conversation. Today we're going to be looking at how to engage with nature from a shamanic perspective. So what we're talking about is more of like how do you engage with your house, like that's once again that animist eyes of like everything has energy. And we want to bring today's conversation into how do we have a connection with nature from a shamanic expression? Like we're bringing that animism, that idea that all things are energy, all things have an innate expression and personality in nature, and so we love to focus on how we engage with this lower world spiritual realm.

Speaker 2:

And so, if that is a new world spiritual realm, and so, if that is a new terminology for you, the lower world, it's one of the three realms in the shamanic journeying world.

Speaker 2:

So we have the upper world, with our spirit guides and our ancestors and those angelics and celestials that are supporting us, and then we have the middle world, which is a spiritual reflection of this world.

Speaker 2:

And then we have the middle world, which is a spiritual reflection of this world, and then we have the lower world, which is really where our power animals, our spirit animals, those mythical creatures, the dragons, the mermaids, the faith folk, the gnomes. All of them live in the lower world and when we can engage with them, it can be a really symbolic and metaphoric experience to kind of show you what your what, where your life is leading and going, and giving you those those inspiration pieces directly from nature. And so thank you all for for being here, for listening to our whispers of wisdom for today, and please note that we will take 30 minutes at the end of this call to answer any questions, but I encourage you to to post those questions in the Facebook chat early so that if it's in line with the conversation we're having, we'll just integrate it in right away instead of waiting for that Q and a. Did I miss anything, chantel?

Speaker 3:

No, you're on it, you're doing really good. Yeah, okay, sounds good. Definitely put your questions in Cause. We will integrate them as we go If they're in alignment with our conversation at the moment. So, yeah, part of our conversation with us.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Yeah, I would love to know just right away, like let us know in the chat, like how do you connect with nature, how do you connect with your power animals, how do you connect with that spiritual sense that you are a part of nature? Like I would love to know. So I think we should like let's go ahead and start off with more of an in-depth description of who are the spirits of the lower world, like what would you expect there?

Speaker 2:

So when we talk about the lower world, oftentimes we're we're talking about moving into non-ordinary reality. We're not in this physical plane anymore. We're going into that meditative, trance-like state to move into the lower world. And the way we get there is by really feeling that we're moving through some kind of doorway or pathway or tunnel or getting squeezed and moving into this other realm, and so it's really is a movement downward and oftentimes, with our cultural perspectives or societal norms, there's this energy that going down is bad, like that is where hell or Hades or whatever, like our cultural perspectives is like going down it's wrong or bad and it is not that way in the shamanic perspective, and so we have to kind of take that level of pressure of going down will be bad or scary or whatever, and take that off, because that doesn't exist in the shamanic world and what you believe you will create.

Speaker 2:

So if you are fearful of going down, you'll create that experience, whereas if I go down and I'm connecting with the true earthy nature of the world, like this real connection with nature, with Pachamama, with mother Gaia, it's a really positive experience because ultimately we are part of nature, we are earthlings and of the earth and therefore it's part of us, it's part of who we are and and to deny that aspect of who we are can be, can be detrimental to our health and psychological wellbeing, like when we can recognize that we are nature and part of nature. One, we come to nature more respectfully. And two, that we can really honor that you know our blood, our bones, our internal, our bodies are really created from these nutrients, that they're created from the ashes, dust to dust. Like all of this is interconnected. The ashes, dust to dust, like all of this is interconnected. And so how do we, how do we remember who we are on that, that level?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, really connecting with earth and nature and, you know, taking the perspective of going to the lower world, it really is just, it's that mirror image of going into what we see here, but it's connecting with spirit animals, that vibration, all of that in a very energetic and tangible way to then, when you come back out of meditation and you see it in your day-to-day life, it's that reconnection of spirit and letting you know that, okay, you're being protected or do you remember that in your journey work, and so the messages and how they come through, but it's really connecting to nature and the nature within ourselves. Bless you and so being able to really connect with the lower world and all that it has to offer. So for me, like I love all the, all the worlds I love the upper world, lower world and middle world, but, um, I really do love the symbology of the lower world and how nature shows up and how we can really integrate them into our life, their messages and what they mean. And when you have a power animal or a spirit animal that shows up for you, you can identify what that animal represents. What does it do in its herd, what does it do as like, its behavior, its traits and all those things, and so it can really help to guide you in life so that you can recognize like okay, if I have like, for me, my power animal is a lion. Well, that means I need strength, so I can pull for the strength on that.

Speaker 3:

But it was the experience of going down to the lower world to really identify that my favorite animal is also my power animal. And so I think, for a lot of people, when you think about going to the lower world because of what you're saying earlier, that is like you can't go down and you absolutely can, because that's what the earth is here for and we are these earthlings and we are here to connect to her energy. And we are doing such a disservice to ourself when we bypass the earth and nature and everything and don't even connect, you know, by walking on concrete, going straight to work, not even taking in the energy around you as you're driving. Really, it's time for us to awaken to her energy and her trees and grass, and birds and animals and everything, so that we are lifting ourself up, which is really what this work is all about is raising our vibration, raising ourselves up, our consciousness, our awareness and tuning in to all the magic that's around us. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

The medicine that's around us.

Speaker 2:

And that and I think that's a really good point that there's medicine when we connect with nature.

Speaker 2:

It's healing to be in nature. That's why you know grounding, earthing, walking and forest, bathing and all of these things have gotten so popular, because now there's so much more science around just connection with nature. Like how do we connect with nature and can we see it as medicine? Like there's this ancient wisdom that has always been known and now science has to go and prove it so that people actually engage with it. And I always find that aspect curious of like we've we've known this for millennia, we've known this for millennia. Like, yes, go get connected with nature. And recently, this summer, I learned a new type of meditation that I think is really applicable and it does like when you have a stronger connection with the earth, one you lose the fear around earth.

Speaker 2:

When you sit in on the earth and in the dirt and on the grass or on the bridge over the Creek or whatever it is where you're really able to tap into these elements of nature, the fear goes away from it and when we lose the fear, we can then journey to the lower world with greater ease, right, and so it's the fear that holds us back and there's so much ingrained fear around connecting with nature because our culture in this, you know, christian, christian, judo's era is like everything is upwards, like connect with the divine instead of connect with nature, and so there's been this separation of trying to make us more civilized by not being with nature and that, like farmers are dirty or you know, like there's all this stuff and like actually all of those, all of that dirt is really good for us in so many ways. Like if you eat a carrot out of the garden with the dirt on it, you just brush it off and eat it. All of those beautiful microbes are going to feed your system versus the sterile carrots that you get at the grocery store. Like there's all these different levels in which we can connect with nature. And when I learned how to do a sit spot meditation the summer, I just had so many aha moments and just having this meditation teacher explain what this meditation is and why she practices it, and I want to invite you like this is a really phenomenal practice, but it does take daily practice and it's that you find a spot in nature, and the meditation isn't to breathe or to focus on any one thing, it's just so that you can meld into nature, to become the background of nature.

Speaker 2:

And so if you have a spot outside let's say it's in your yard or, ideally, someplace where there's a transition from forest to meadow creek to the forest or something like that like those transitionary areas are where more animals and birds show up, as in those transitionary zones. And so if you find a sit spot there, the idea is to take 20 minutes every day for at least 21 days and let your energy meld into nature, become one with nature. So you're not necessarily focusing on any one thing, but you're noticing the sounds, you're noticing the earth beneath you, you're feeling the feelings of having that, that the grass is brushed beside you. You're noticing the colors that are there, brush beside you, you're noticing the colors that are there. So it's just an awareness exercise.

Speaker 2:

But as you let your mind slip into the patterns and symphony of the nature around you and you're not focusing on it, that is when nature will present itself in its most glorious way, meaning the deer will walk out of the forest and not even see you, because your hormones and your auric field aren't projecting anything, it's just being one with nature.

Speaker 2:

And so the wildlife will show up for you in a more powerful way, because there's no need for it to show up, there's no expectations, there's no, and so you're the animals of this reality, start showing up and not, and perhaps even getting really close. But the moment you think, oh my God, there's the deer, that's when, that's when they'll notice you and go away Like they're noticing your energy. If you are one with nature, all these possibilities open up to allow that beauty of oneness with nature to be fully present. And the moment we come back into our ego, the moment we come back into our humanness, is when it that that reality crumbles. And so the goal of the meditation is just to sit for 20 minutes a day and practice being nature.

Speaker 3:

I love that and that was actually what I was writing to was. Connecting with nature connects like us. Connecting to nature through our senses influences our own intuition, and so it's like Emily I was just going to throw this question out because she's curious if having a stronger connection with nature makes it easier for a person to journey to the lower world as opposed to journeying to the upper world. And I'm going to say yeah, because one. If you're connecting with nature when you go into journey work, you're able to visualize that even more. The vibrancy of your journey is going to show up because you know what it feels like, what it's connected to and everything. But with what Christine is talking about, with going and just sitting in nature for that 20 minutes and becoming one with nature, it's like you're actually transcending beyond the physical and you're going into that energy. That is where the spirit, the animal spirits, the tree spirits, the water, everything becomes one with you. And as people we don't tend to do that because we're in our physical bodies and we don't really a lot of people don't know how to move beyond that. So it being in that meditative state is going to allow you just to be and then your energy will flow out to where the deer want to come out, to where different animals, you'll notice birds will come closer, hummingbirds, butterflies, whatever it is, will come closer to you because your energy is vibrating with theirs. And that's really what's happening is you're just transcending beyond that, and then these messages were able to receive, and so we can connect with nature. We can connect with our intuition. Our guides are going to connect with us.

Speaker 3:

All of these beautiful things start to happen because we're lowering our expectation, we are allowing ourselves just to be in the moment and our minds aren't chattering, our heart isn't, you know, all these things are just happening within our physical body. That allows us to really tune in and connect. And so, when you're also sitting in, that the earth is providing us with these really positive ions. That helps to um, balance out the body, it helps to, like, take away the static, you know, and so we're able to release more. We're open to it. And then, when you leave, you feel amazing because you've been connected with this, the medicine of nature, as we were speaking earlier, that we can't all get when we're sitting in our house, when we're sitting at work, when we're busy and we're on the go all the time, because you really do have to take that time out to sit and to be, and to be in that meditative thought and connect with everything around us.

Speaker 2:

You know, and I love how this also connects back to lessons from Sensei Asui, the founder of Reiki, and the fact that he was in nature for 21 days.

Speaker 2:

We all like I feel like that piece of it is kind of skimmed over. Like he fasted for 21 days, he suffered for 21 days and I'm like he was in nature for 21 days practicing mountain aestheticism. He was on the land and on a sacred mountain and in nature. You know, it wasn't like he was practicing in a temple, he was in nature and it was all day, every day, for 21 days. And I think when I first got introduced to this sit spot meditation concept, I was like, oh my God, that's what a suey was doing. Right, Like that. That is the practice of mountain aestheticism is being one with the mountain and what does that look like? And so, if you are listening in our Reiki practitioner, how do you connect with nature? Like it's, he wasn't doing a Buddhist practice in the temple for the most part, but he was out in nature, he was sleeping in nature, and so it just I just love that piece of it and it really is motivating me to going okay.

Speaker 2:

Well, maybe I can't take 20 minutes a day.

Speaker 2:

But can I take five minutes? Can I take five minutes and go outside and watch the sunrise and do some sun gazing and give my offering to the spirit of the sun, to give gratitude for the new day? Like, how can I engage in this ordinary reality and knowing that that those nature connections are going to enhance my connection with non-ordinary reality, that spiritual realm and my connection to the lower world? Because there it's like everything is metaphoric, Everything is symbolic in the lower world. And how can we say yes to that experience? How can we let our spirit meld with the earth and let it slip down into the spiritual world of the lower world so that we can connect with our power animals, connect with spirit, animals for messages and meaning in our life, and I just love that ability to know that it's accessible, it's accessible to us and I would love for for people just to have that connection with nature. Once again, I feel like if we all were taking even just five, 10 minutes a day to connect with nature, our world would be a better place, Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, another technique that we can talk about is working with tree spirits. So a lot of times you know, yes, it's sitting on the earth, but sometimes just going toward to a tree, like allowing yourself to connect with the tree, and when you do that so say, you go out in your yard and you have like five trees you can close your eyes and ask you know what tree wants to work with you. Right, you will feel some energetic connection, or maybe the wind will pick up and those leaves will blow more, or there's going to be something that is going to tune you into that energy. And then that tree wants to work with you and when you walk up to that, you are connecting your auric field with that tree's auric field, right, but it's asking the permission to work with it. And when you go up, you can put your hands on the trunk and connecting to that energy is going to allow everything that you're ready to release, to offer it to the tree, and that tree will take it and will root it. It will ground it for you. So everything you are releasing to the tree, it's going to pull it down his trunk, down into its roots, give it to the earth. Your feet become roots itself. So then everything is just moving downward right and you're just composting that, you're releasing that, you're letting that energy to be recycled, to come back anew and to be coming back to you in a positive way and then, when you're done giving that gratitude, be recycled, to come back anew and to be coming back to you in a positive way. And then, when you're done giving that gratitude, that thanks, because that is that experience is so profound, when you feel it.

Speaker 3:

And this weekend I was actually able to introduce that to my sister and I told her go, we went and did some like mother wound energy, like healing and you know feminine healing and stuff like that. And so I was like just find a tree. And it was interesting because I went and I did mine and we weren't really like seeing each other. But I found this tree and I went to the certain spot of the tree and I did my work and then it was her turn and she literally went and stood at the same tree, same spot, and I was like, oh, we're releasing like the same energy lot. And I was like, oh, we're releasing like the same energy and I just thought that was really like. It was just amazing to see. But that tree when I asked which tree in the park wanted to work with me, that tree, all of a sudden it's leaves were like, like it, just it was blowing in the wind and I was like, all right, I see you.

Speaker 3:

And so it's like they're there, they're here, these tree spirits are here to work with us and we need to be able to be open enough to recognize that energy and the calling. Because even in your home space, you can pull in the energy of the earth and you can pull in the energy of the trees and the plants within your space of your home. And they're not even in here, but just having that window, seeing it, connecting to it, knowing it's right there and asking its energy to come in and cleanse your home and ground you and all the things. It goes beyond the physical it really does. And when we can connect to all of it with our energy, it's always available to us, even in sessions, meditation, if you can't sleep, call on the earth, call on your, your spiritual team within nature, and see how they show up for you.

Speaker 2:

You know and I love that, and the fact that, too, like it can be a physical tree, like in your current reality, and it's just as powerful to close your eyes and go. Which tree do I need to call upon? It can be a tree from your past. It can be a tree that you, uh, that you connect with at any point in time, right? So, like my current, like my original tree that I would utilize to get into the lower worlds or utilize to move up into the upper world was a tree that I, on that was. It was an oak tree that was on the land in Talent, oregon, which is just north of Ashland, oregon, and I was studying midwifery there, and it had a big hole in the base of the tree that I, as a journeyer and the spirit world, I could climb into that hole and utilize the root system to get down into the lower world and then, if I wanted to go to the upper world, I would climb its branches and the tree, the oak tree, would grow into the upper world Like it was my, it was my transportation guide. It didn't need it, it didn't need to be an animal or a spirit. It was the tree itself, was my transportation guide and I love that.

Speaker 2:

And another example of another tree is like when, when you were just talking and you were like this tree, my sister, I would both gravitated towards this tree. I closed my eyes and the tree that came to my mind's eye was the tree that was in my backyard as a child, and I've been currently working through a few layers of childhood trauma that I experienced and remembering my closeness with this tree. It would, I would climb this tree, the tree branches would scratch my window at the night and you know, I had like. I could hear it, I could feel it, I could sense it and I love this tree. It was a dogwood tree, so it was really beautiful every spring with its pink flowers, every spring with its pink flowers. And as I'm pulling up this memory forward and really being able to connect with this dogwood tree, it felt very much like it.

Speaker 2:

It ha. It has me. I can release the pain of my childhood trauma to the tree. That's why it was there. It's. It witnessed all of it. It witnessed all of it, and so I can turn towards the tree and ask for transmutation and I can go back to my inner child and say, remember the tree.

Speaker 2:

I can go back to my inner child and say remember the tree, the tree loves us. It's always been there for us. It is the stability factor in my childhood when chaos was going around. The tree never changed. It was always readily available for me to go to it, Just like the family freaking dog right Like the tree, it was permanent and we can turn towards that and say thank you.

Speaker 2:

And I come back again and again to release that childhood trauma, knowing that as I hugged the tree, as I climbed the tree and my inner child mind's eye, all of that trauma can be absorbed in the tree and move it down into the roots where it can compost.

Speaker 2:

It can be transmuted, and I think that's the other thing that oftentimes we forget is that the earth will take the good, the bad, the ugly, as well as all that love and light. Right, it can compost it all you know. So if I throw a perfectly good apple in the compost, it's going to treat it the same as if it was a rotten apple. It's going to take all of it and compost it into this nourishing soil. And so we can return again and again and again to earth and say, take what no longer serves me, and the earth is going to say yes, please, and thank you, I'll take all of it. And I love that so much because oftentimes we're afraid to release our heaviness, because we don't want it to damage whatever, wherever we're releasing it, and the earth says yes, please, and thank you Every time every time why meditation and visualization is so powerful?

Speaker 3:

because you're just sitting here right now doing all that work. You know, and nobody even knows that you are there with your tree, releasing and what needs to be offered to this tree, and that is how powerful, that is that and how quick, that was right. So people think like it's this big thing that you got to do, and it really isn't. It's tuning in and allowing whatever's supposed to come to you, whether it's a visualization of a tree or a plant or whatever. But when that comes forward, tuning in what you feel and what you are ready to let go of and having that connection and that's where the visualization comes in the meditation connecting with something in nature, in your real reality of nature, and bringing that into your meditative state, because then it's always there and always available. You can always connect to it at any point. Yeah, and right there, you did like a minute if that.

Speaker 2:

Well, and I think that's it. Like time is an illusion, the spiritual doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to be anything, it doesn't. I think there's so much of like we have to meditate for X amount of time for it to work and it's, yes, like time is an illusion. And so if I can just pull up that tree in my mind's eye and see myself and my inner child self connecting with the tree and knowing that it's occurring, I could stay in that space for an hour or 60 seconds, and it doesn't matter. It's the knowingness that it is done. It is done, it is done.

Speaker 2:

And so how can we accept that the work is done when we see it done? Right, and I it's really interesting. Like I feel like you never know when these layers are ready to peel off and heal, like we can't predict what's going to be ready for healing until it's it kind of is in your face, right. And so I'm in this, this, this, I don't know this energy right now, where I've got these childhood layers that I didn't even know were an issue, being pulled back and going oh, tree, tree witnessed all of it. I can, I can be here with tree, and whether it was this trauma or that trauma or whatever trauma it was in my childhood and going, the tree was always safe. The tree always protected me, the tree was always reminding me it was there and I'm safe in that. So, noticing what tree was in your childhood, what tree did you love to climb? How can we because I think there's a piece of this of being able to journey to the lower world, when we have a connection with our inner child?

Speaker 2:

when we allow our mind to be imaginative. That imagination, that that play scape in our mind's eye, is what utilizes divine inspiration to communicate with us. It's going to bring forward that energy of communication from spirit. And when we dismiss what our mind is trying to bring forward, that imagination, so I can imagine the tree, I can imagine my inner child, I can imagine these things happening. And did I intend it? The tree? I can imagine my inner child, I can imagine these things happening. And did I intend it? No, I was inspired by it.

Speaker 2:

Notice the difference when we're intending it, there's some, oftentimes, a limitation of our ego and our intentions, versus divine inspiration is really saying this is a limitless potential, what's here?

Speaker 2:

And so when we move through the stages of empowerment, when we move through the stages of awakening, we're giving ourselves the opportunity to say yes to whatever is showing up and leaning forward into it. And when we can say yes to that imagination, eventually you'll be like well, I had no idea that was that was going to show up that way. Like I had no idea that was that was going to show up that way. Like I had no idea that this dogwood tree would come up in this conversation. There was nowhere in my notes that I said talk about the dogwood tree. It was not like. This is the organic nature of when we are in union with spirit, how it can communicate with us, union with spirit, how it can communicate with us and we're doing ourselves a disservice by dismissing it. How can we step into that space of childlike play and wonder and say whatever is going to show up, it's going to show up and it's meant to be that way.

Speaker 3:

I think a lot of people too they, we are, a lot of people have like self-doubt. You know and they're. The question is always how do you know? How do you know it's not your ego? How do you know you're not creating it? How do you know?

Speaker 3:

And it's okay, it's like, get into that playfulness of yourself, allow your imagination to to start, because you got to start somewhere. So once the imagination is free to play and to be open and you can see all these things, there will become a moment, like like christina's saying, where that divine inspiration will come through and suddenly you realize I didn't do that, I didn't think that I didn't create that, and then you can work with that energy, because that's what it is. But we have to get out of our own way first. We have to get out of self-doubt. We have to get out of criticism. We have to get out of our own way. First, we have to get out of self-doubt, we have to get out of criticism. We have to get out of those limiting beliefs that this isn't real, I'm just creating all of this, and what if you are? You know what if you are creating the whole thing? Until that moment, but all of those messages were still messages you needed to receive. If you see yourself as your inner child and there's something that is being played out in your imagination, there's something there, there's nuggets of healing that are ready to be released, and then, when you're open to that and now, that energy the divine or your higher self, however you want to put it comes through and expands that healing, expands that vision that's you doing the work and that energy work is so powerful, it's almost more. It's more powerful to me than what we can do in our physical.

Speaker 3:

So, like, if I have a conversation I need to have with someone, I energetically have that conversation. I allow the energy to do the healing. I don't have to go and have a sit down and have this long conversation with someone that's going to bring up probably argument or, you know know, conflict between you and the other person. I let it happen energetically. If a conversation needs to be followed up with that, fine, but I always start with the energy part. Let me have this conversation with their higher self. Let me put that healing energy out there and work with my power.

Speaker 3:

Animals work with you, know, like give it to the birds or give it to whatever you want to work with, to allow it to fly, to allow it to go, to allow it to be released. Because when we're doing that work, we're rewriting our contracts and you know, so to speak, we're saying, okay, I'm no longer in alignment to this, I no longer agree to this part of this relationship, whatever it is. I release it and therefore I'm giving it to the universe, I'm giving it to the earth, and when I do that, it can open up communication in a much healing way. And sometimes we really are assuming that the other person is equally as upset or whatever as we are, and that's not always the case either. So it's like you feel like I need to go have this conversation, and then they're like what are you talking about, which creates discord anyway.

Speaker 3:

So having it energetically really helps you to be in your own power by releasing what you need to, whether that's writing it, meditating on it, thinking about it. However you choose to let it go. But it is that, that feeling, that energetic release, and we speak about that often. But it is so powerful to be able to do that and when we're in that place of releasing, we're not sitting with closed fist. You know, we're opening it, we're allowing our heart to open, our mind to open and our hands to release, so we can start to receive healing and love and abundance and all the things that we limit ourselves with. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I love that so much. There's just such a beautiful space that nature can offer us and the lower world often shows up very symbolically. So when we're connecting into the true nature of the lower world, everything is symbolic, everything is symbolic. So if you are connecting in with the lower world and you see a certain color, it's symbolic. If you see a specific type of flower, it's symbolic.

Speaker 2:

If you have some like do a exploration of the lower world, the journey itself is answering the question.

Speaker 2:

They're not going to talk to you directly necessarily, and I think that's the biggest difference I see between the lower world and the upper world is that the journey itself they're going to bring you on a path that's going to give you the answer, by the path, the journey itself, versus here's an answer, here's, here's me communicating with you, and that, once again, um is like a push into trust.

Speaker 2:

The process versus it has to be a certain way, and I think this is why some people connect easily to the lower world because they're they're used to living in metaphor, used to living in symbology and trusting that everything is showing up in their life, is symbolic or synchronistic in some way for a reason and purpose, versus people who are really comfortable in the upper world, where they they really want it to be direct and forthcoming and it be an answer, versus this symbolic route.

Speaker 2:

And so when I journey to the lower world, it often is because I specifically want to get out of my head. You know, if I have a question for spirit and I have an egoic attachment to what the answer is going to be, then I'm definitely not going to the upper world, right, like I need this to be so abstract and so outside the box so that I can interpret it through symbology. So there's no way my ego can get involved. That's true. That's when I go to the lower worlds yeah, I trust them to to offer me an experience or vision that's so outside the box that I can't interject my ego.

Speaker 3:

Because this the lower world is, with the symbology like you're talking about is. It is. Every color represents something, every shape, everything that you see, like when we talk, when we teach it to our students. It's like everything that you experience is a message to you. So it's just taking it and being able to interpret it, to decode it, to sit with it and allow your intuition to have a conversation with you. Why were you seeing such and such? Whatever it is, you know. And so it's like suddenly water shows up or the roots of the tree or certain animals show up. You know what do they mean.

Speaker 3:

If you see something that's low to the ground, that's typically like maybe you need to do some grounding, some earthing. You're connecting with your inner self. If you see birds everywhere, it's having that higher perspective, so it's just recognizing what they mean. And earlier for the analogy of like a lizard losing its tail, and it was like okay, so here you are. If you see a lizard and his tail has been cut off, but you know that that's going to grow there.

Speaker 3:

That's that death and rebirth process that we go through. So you know, seeing that in nature, in your journey work is really noticing too. How do they come up? Because that is telling us that, yes, we might be letting certain parts of ourself die away, but it's because there's this rebirth that is happening for us, and so even those things that are symbolic like that aren't scary. It's just awareness. It's just for us to have this understanding, and when we are in our fear, then every message is going to be fearful, but when we're just in this abundance of, I just need to know, and that awareness of knowledge and wisdom, that's what comes forward, is that higher level of thought and consciousness and connecting to yourself forward is that higher level of thought and consciousness and connecting to yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think one of my favorite examples of of this is years and years and years ago like probably you know close to like eight, nine years ago, I had a client who came to see me and they in my mind it was kind of a superficial question Like should I be with this guy or should I be with this guy? Like one of those types of questions, and really trying to put me in a position of being a psychic, which I'm not like I have. No, I would never consider myself a psychic and doing readings to, to predict future, like that's not what I offer. And yet here I have this client like should I be with this person? And one you know, spirit in general doesn't. Like should questions? Like they don't care, they want you to learn the lessons in the life, the life contractual agreements that we came in with versus how long should this take? Should I be here? Like all of those shoulds? Like it doesn't, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2:

So when I had this client come and be like should I be with this person, I was like let's go to the lower world, because my ego or her ego was going to get in the way, right, like I needed to see it in such a symbolic way that felt organic and original, versus then our, um, our projections are going to show up here, right. So I brought her to the lower world and I, what I saw was a treasure trove like a treasure chest, and in the treasure chest was all these little figurines, and so it was full of these figurines and it, and then I was like well, is it this person? And I saw from the treasure chest one of those figurines rise up and then drop and fall back in. And then it was is it this person? And we called their name and that figuring rose up and dropped back in, and then I gave it a moment and then, from the depths of that treasure chest, another a third figuring that we weren't even considering rose to the surface and it was glowing and it was bright and it was like, oh, that's neither one of them. It's neither one of them and it's not in your perception as of yet. This person isn't in your world yet.

Speaker 2:

There's other things like don't rush it, like no, like the two people that you're considering aren't it, and be patient. The third is is being prepared for you. You are being prepared for them. There isn't a rush into this, it's just there's a process that's happening, but your person isn't here yet, and so by was able to really hear it first off. Versus had I gone to the upper world where it would be like no, no, if they're coming, she might not have really believed that the words would have been restrictive. Versus symbolic allows us to interpret, right, and when we do lower world work and it shows up in this way of very symbolic, it's clear that it's also not like the practitioner's projection either, like I don't freaking care, it's your love life, right? So I really appreciate how the journeys of the lower world really are symbolic and that we have this opportunity to interpret, and it's up to your client also to do the interpretation.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, because we we can interpret it all day long, but if it doesn't align or it's not in their, their, their scope, they're not going to receive the message anyway. So it's really bringing our clients in and saying, okay, you got to be a part of this. What does this mean to you? You know, this is some options of what it can mean, but then you need they need to really be able to be a part of it and step in their power to say, yes, I can see that, or this is what that means, or whatever it is, and not being in that restrictive energy of thinking that it all has to be on the practitioner. We get to help you, guide and to mentor you through the process, but it really is the client that has to come forward and own it and claim it for themselves, and so that's a great point.

Speaker 2:

And I think I love that. Like, once again, we're not psychics, like there's so much Oftentimes clients will give their power away to the psychic. They'll give their power away to the practitioner to give them information. When we say, this is up to you client to interpret and do what you will with. It has nothing to do with me as the practitioner. Like I'm not going to feed my ego and say, ah, this is the right answer and it's the only answer and there's no other interpretation. Like I really want my clients and students to feel that they have the power within themselves to do the work. Yeah, so if I have a vision, I can provide that vision, but it's up to them to sit with it, interpret it the way they will, and I can help them work through the limiting beliefs or the egoic statements or whatever it is that's clouding their field of vision. Like we can do the healing work, but ultimately it's their choice. It's their choice to come to their own conclusions and resolutions of and what next steps that they're going to take in their life, instead of turning to to the practitioner to say tell me what to do. I don't, I, I will always go to that. This is your free will Like. This is your life. You can do and make what you will with it. It's not my job as the practitioner to feed you the answers. It's your job to come to conclusions on your own.

Speaker 2:

Here's perhaps a buffet of options. Which ones resonates with you Like, if we need to be working on that sacral chakra and our child like play, if it like, I want to ask my clients what does that feel like for you? How would your inner child like to come out and play? What does that look like Versus the? The only way you can do this is by hopscotching. You need to go get the chalk and do it this way when there are hundreds, if not thousands, away. Our inner child likes to play. Who am I to say what's the right way for you? Everyone is so individualistic that I want to give permission to self-identify. What's the most expansive way for my client to do their healing work period?

Speaker 3:

It's on them it totally is, and that it helps people to come into their heart and get out of their head. And that's really what it is too is us letting them know, like, okay, we need to, like now, we need to get out of the mind, into our heart, where our intuition is, where our spirit is. All of that, because we don't always hang out here, we like to be up in the head, and when we're here, this is really when our answers come through, I mean, and it's in how we can connect and have that compassion for ourself, compassion for others, and so working with the lower world, working with your power animals, working with nature, spirit, and all of that, it tunes you into your inner self, it makes you go within, because you can't actually be logical when you're sitting with a tree, you're sitting with the river, you're sitting with nature, because your mind is going to slow down, it's going to, it's like it needs a moment of rest and to sleep, and that allows your mind to open or your heart to open up, because we're resting our mind in that moment and our body is now energetically taking over and all these things start to happen. And so when you're even like calling in your power animals. For me, it's like I absolutely know where mine all are, you know.

Speaker 3:

But watching them, sometimes when they show up in sessions for me or I'm in meditation and I need an answer, and then they run and go get that answer for me and they bring it back, I'm like yes, thank you, and there's so much gratitude for that. And I just love the experience of it because, even through my um and watching them grow and expand, you know, and I feel like the more intuitive I become with myself and my practice, my power animals are growing as well. So visually they're showing up in their power, whereas in the beginning I thought they're already in their power, which they are but they're also mirroring my energy and where I'm at. So now the lion shows up bigger, the peacock shows up wider, you know, like all these things are happening and it's just so amazing to experience.

Speaker 3:

And if you don't have that experience yet, then it's only because it's time to learn it, and that's really what this conversation is is this time to learn and to allow ourselves to be in the energy of nature and the energy to go to the lower world to be able to do this practice, to know that it's safe, to know that there is so much out there for us to do and that medicine is there for us when we're tuning into the tree, when we're turning into the animals around us. You know, for example, like I've never had cats and now I have cats. It's like the universe said you need cats because you need protective energy in your home. And now I have these cats that chase me around all day long and it took me a minute to like integrate them into my life and my family, because there are two new animals that are running around my house that I'm not used to having, but there is so much purpose in them that when I start to do work, I have one that talks.

Speaker 3:

So she will meow at me the moment I start to do any work and I'm not like I'm quiet, right, but the moment she feels me go into meditation, she comes out and what I feel in her she is chasing away anything that does not serve me, making sure that her voice is heard and the other one she like transmute the energy. So she's quiet, she just hangs in the space and allow and, you know, takes energy. And so that right there, just noticing their purpose in my home. That is because I did the work in the energy field to say, okay, I'm ready for these, these animals, to show up in my reality completely unexpected, but they're here and you know. But when you can see it and recognize it, how is nature showing up for you? And suddenly these new animals or whatever a bird that keeps coming to you every day, notice how that, what that message is. You know, if you keep seeing the same animal, there's a purpose for that, there's a reason.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, I love that, and we're going to be talking more about that next week on how nature spirits communicate with us and our everyday waking reality.

Speaker 2:

So I'm really excited by that. There's so much more that we could get into just on that topic. Like that's a whole other conversation and we're going to do it on the schedule it's happening and knowing that we all have access. I think that's it like have a takeaway from this conversation, but also know that we all have access to nature. Even if you live in a site like a high-rise apartment building and you have a potted plant, tune into that potted plant. If you have a park nearby, go to the park.

Speaker 2:

I just happen to live in Montana where, yeah, I have a creek on my property, I have goats on my property, I have chickens on my property, I can look outside at a field of deer every day and I live in a co-housing community with like 42 other families. Like how, like I just happened to be in a really beautiful part of the world, the country where nature is very accessible to me. It's not hard for me to to walk even a hundred feet and feel like I'm totally immersed in nature and be connected to my power animal. Like there's bear scat all over the place right now my goats are kind of freaking out because they can smell them Like I have this other, this other layer going on and you don't need all of that to connect with nature. How are you going to say yes to nature this week? That's what I want you to do as your soul assignments. From watching this is going, how can I connect, whether that's on a daily basis or a committed time that you're going to make this week to say yes, I can connect and tune in with nature, knowing that in that practice I can trust nature. I can trust that nature is going to show up for me in a healing way, and then I can offer it my releases. I can let whatever is heavy on my heart let it go. Take that moment to come out of your logical mindscape and settle down into your heart space to say I am worthy of healing and I can be okay in nature and trust nature. And right there, there are so much fear around nature oftentimes because it can be the unknown for so many people. And to say, like I'm safe now, like I see this a lot of times in my community because everyone's scared of the bear.

Speaker 2:

The bear this year has two cubs and I'm so like comfortable with the bears in our area and I'm like they're, they're fine, they're, they're fine, they're, she's, she's okay, and she has slept on this land for decades. Who am I to say that she can't sleep on our property? Like this is her home just as much as my home. I've actually encroached on to her habitat, not the other way around, right? So let the bear be like we don't need to feed her the apples or we don't need to give her an offering from one of the goat babies or anything of that nature. But can we just respect that? This was her home before I got here and just let her have her space? And so she's got this really beautiful cove and our choke cherries where I know she goes and sleeps, like you can see that she's padded it down and she sleeps there and that's, and it's like 20 feet away from the goat pasture and I'm like, well, no wonder the goats are freaking out right now, because she is there, she's so close and she's got two babies this year.

Speaker 2:

Can we just say like, wow, congratulations, mama, you brought two new babies into the world. Have a safe place to land at night Like. You're safe here and you do. You have a safe place to land at night, like you're safe here and you do you and we'll do us and we won't bother each other. Like I can be respectful in your space and she'll be respectful in mine, and this is where I love to do the journey work of like this is middle world work. This is like there is a spiritual reflection where I can talk to the higher self of this bear spirit and go like here's your safe space. Please respect our safe space and don't go eat our goats.

Speaker 3:

Right, don't, don't attack our children, but really, just, there is that piece. Well, a couple of tips that you know when you're talking about the house plant is definitely that, if you don't have nature accessible to you, get houseplants, start working with them, bring the energy into your home, taking your shoes off, walking barefoot on the dirt, on the grass, even if you have to drive to a park. I'm a barefoot person, always have been, and so it's funny how many people are like, oh my gosh, you're barefoot. And I'm like, yes, and of course I have shoes where I need to have shoes, but the majority of my time I'm barefoot. And then when I encourage them to take off their shoes and walk on the dirt or whatever, it's like the first time they've ever experienced that, you know. But they can feel the energy, they feel that shift if they allow themselves to. And that's the limited belief of I have to have shoes on. I don't like the feeling of things under my feet or whatever, or they're sensitive, but once you do it that your inner child comes out.

Speaker 3:

You're more playful, you're connecting to nature, you're doing all these things that you're not used to doing and suddenly it's because you're giving yourself permission to do so and when you're giving yourself permission, you're opening up so much of yourself that you've closed yourself off from. So it's bringing in rocks from your yard, it's getting crystals, it's having plants, it's like having feathers. I went to a friend's and I gathered a bunch of feathers. So I have vases of feathers. You know that I get to use and utilize in my work and it's it's tuning into what can I bring into my home that's accessible to me, to my practice, whatever If you can't go outside, you know, sometimes like meditating outside, but if it's raining you're not necessarily going to go sit in the rain every time, you know. So it's what can you do within your home to actually connect with all of that?

Speaker 2:

No, I love that reminder of like paying attention to our feet, because last spring I was like, all right, I really want a pair of moccasins, I really want, like I'm a I'm a slippers girl. Right, and recognizing I won't wear slippers that have plastic soles on the bottom of them, it has to be leather. And then to recognize also that you know the Cowboys with the cowboy boots, what's beneath their feet is leather, it's hardened leather, it's not plastic. And to go, whether it's moccasins or cowboy boots, they're connected to the earth as they walk about their day. I love a good pair of cowboy boots.

Speaker 2:

I'm I, my cowboy boots gave out a few years ago and I'm still on the hunt for my next pair. And you know, knowing that, like once again, I live in an area where they are more accessible because I'm in Montana. But to know the understanding of why, why, why wear cowboy boots or why wear moccasins, or why choose your slippers off of Etsy by someone who handmade your slippers, like I love my Etsy slippers because they're real fur and it's real leather, and to be connected to this animal on my feet is so powerful, like I'm actually looking forward to hunting season and having people in my life, that hunt because one. There's a blessing in that of seeing it as a blessing. Like I the the energy of saying yes to these animals for sacrificing themselves for the nutrients of my family and to go. I am one with this animal and I'm going to utilize as much of their offering as possible, including their animal skins. I would love to make leather, um, leather laces, leather pieces, strips of leather so that I can do my uh, you know sacred work with it. Like leather, so that I can do my you know sacred work with it.

Speaker 2:

Like I think there's a lot of how can we connect? What do you do that you can just make small adjustments to say yes to more nature in your world? I think there's just there's just so many opportunities there, whether or not you agree with, you know, hunting, or whether or not you agree with meat eating or whatever it may be like. How can you connect with nature in your everyday life? And what does that look like? And going, every physical body is different and my physical body, yes, because I am a visionary and I do get so ungrounded, but with my work, that having leather on my feet and having meat as a way to eat to connect with nature is one of the most grounding, powerful ways that I can do it for my body and my body is different from, not can be different from your body and to say that that's okay, that's okay, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode.

Speaker 1:

I hope you enjoyed listening to Christine and Chantel share their wisdom on how we can connect to the lower world and bring nature healing into both our physical and spiritual lives and practices.

Speaker 1:

As you wait for our next episode, I hope you'll join us over in our Moon Rising Shamanic Mystics Facebook group, where we would love to hear your top takeaway from today's episode. And, of course, don't forget to like and subscribe to the podcast so that you can be the first to know when new episodes are released. Extra points if you share this podcast with a friend, so that we can reach more shamanic and spiritual seekers just like you. But until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, facebook, youtube and TikTok at Moon Rising Institute or visit our website, moonrisinginstitutecom to learn more about our mission and find future opportunities to connect with our community of shamanic mystics. Once again, thank you for sharing space with us today and until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.