Wisdom Rising

What is Shamanism: Embracing Animism and Our Spiritual Roots

• Christine Renee, Isabel Wells, and Shantel Ochoa • Season 1 • Episode 16

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Join us as we journey through the mystical origins and deep roots of Shamanism, shedding light on its evolution across centuries and cultures. Discover how adopting animist perspectives can revolutionize not only your spiritual practices but also your entire life, fostering a harmonious relationship with nature and moving beyond hierarchical distinctions between humans and the natural world.

In today's episode, we delve into the core principles and ethical implications of Shamanic practices today, emphasizing the importance of humility and respect for cultural roots. Through personal stories and metaphors like the Tree of Life, we illustrate the profound interconnectedness and individual purpose within the natural world. Learn about the significant role of Shamanic wisdom in healing, both historically and at Moon Rising Shamanic Institute, where ancient techniques meet modern practices.

Explore the delicate balance between science and spirituality, and understand the distinction between Shamans and Shamanic practitioners. We discuss the challenges of cultural appropriation and the need for ethical practice in modern times. Reflect on the universal connection to nature and the transformative potential of reestablishing our bond with the environment. Join us for this enlightening episode and share your experiences in our Moon Rising Shamanic Mystics Facebook group, as we embrace shamanic wisdom for a more balanced and harmonious life.

Learn more about Soul Rising Shamanic Reiki: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/soul-rising/

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/moonrisinginstitute
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute

Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule

Book a FREE 15 minute connect call with Izzy: https://calendly.com/moonrisinginstitute/connect

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

Speaker 1:

It's time to remember your divine purpose and limitless potential.

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Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the official podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute.

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Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine René, Isabel Wells and Chantelle Ochoa as we guide you on a journey of radical self-discovery and spiritual guidance. Each week, we'll dance through the realms of shamanism, mysticism, energy, healing and personal development to illuminate your path to true healing and self-sourced wisdom Through weekly inspired conversations and interviews with leading spiritual and shamanic practitioners. We are here to help you acknowledge, reconcile and balance your energy so that you can awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast. I'm your host for today, Isabel Wells, and I'm so excited and honored to be joined by our visionary, Christine Rene, as we dive into the mystical realms of shamanism. In today's episode, we're going to be exploring the origins of shamanism, including its deep roots and animist perspectives. We'll talk about how adopting animist perspectives can not only transform your spiritual practice but also your life as a whole. Along the way, we touch on the ways that shamanism has shifted across the centuries and look at the cultural variations that appear. We also touch on the universal aspects of shamanism that occur across tribes, regardless of their geography or the time in which those practices were developed. Using this perspective, we bring forward core shamanism, these universal aspects of shamanism that were brought to the West with permission and intention and can help us to bring shamanism into our own practices in an ethical, honest and healing way as we explore. Our goal is not to put one definitive definition on what shamanism truly is because, as you'll hear, it's impossible to do. Rather, our intention is to bring to light this amazing healing modality and explore how incorporating shamanism into our own practices has completely revolutionized the healing that we see in ourselves and our clients. Along the way, we'll share personal stories of our time engaging with shamanic rituals, share resources to help you get back to the roots of shamanism and explore the practice in an ethical way, touch on the core principles of a true shamanic practice and share how we interpret and engage with shamanism here at Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. If you've been interested in learning more about what shamanism is and how you can begin to incorporate it into your own life and practice, then this episode is for you. We would love to hear about your top takeaways or lingering questions over in our Moon Rising Shamanic Mystics Facebook group, and be sure to follow us on your favorite social media accounts at Moon Rising Institute for more information and, of course, remember to subscribe to the podcast so that you can get access to new episodes sooner. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy today's episode with the intention that it brings you more inspiration, insight and education on how you can begin to embrace shamanic techniques for yourself.

Speaker 1:

Let's go to the show. Welcome. Welcome to another amazing conversation. This week. I'm joined by Moon Rising visionary Christine Rene. I'm so excited to be back sharing this space with her on a Monday, and today we're going to be talking about what is shamanism, and, for those of you who have been listening to the podcast, you know that our podcast topics are matching up with what our Soul Rising Shamanic students are learning in class of our minds and our energies, but also because we wanted to give the community a little taste of what it's like to be a student with us, to engage with the progress of this learning, and so you can kind of think of the podcast for the next four months as a bit of a mini course, if you will, on soul rising. And so if you're enjoying these conversations and you're curious to learn more, feel free to message us.

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We'll open enrollment again in January, but, with that said, today we're diving into what is shamanism.

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This is the first official module that our Soul Rising students dive into, and we want to really lay that foundation.

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And as we stepped into this space of preparing this conversation, one of the things that was really at the forefront of our awareness is this fact that shamanism is both a buzzword and this source of disagreement in the spiritual community, and I find this really interesting because I think we can all agree that it's these places and spaces that spark a little bit of I don't want to say controversy, but that open us up to hearing different opinions and perspectives, are often the conversations that we need to be having most, and so our goal with today's conversation is not to say that we have the definitive definition of shamanism or that our way of practicing shamanism is the only way, or any of that.

Speaker 1:

Our goal with this conversation today is to shine a light on how we perceive shamanism here at Moon Rising, how the way that we bring in shamanism is based on our own personal research and studies and learning and teachings and working with people who have this knowledge and had permission to bring it here and to share how shamanism is, at its core, a universal experience.

Speaker 1:

And so this is really to open us up to a broader conversation that we can hopefully hold in a space of love and light and it's 1111, my time as I'm saying this but we can hopefully hold this conversation in a space of love and light and come forward today and share that.

Speaker 1:

When we go back to our roots right, and this is something that is really important to us here at Moon Rising of this idea of honoring our origins while still moving forward and evolving and tuning into our own crown chakras and divine inspiration and all of that but when we come to our roots, what does shamanism have to offer us and how can we do it in a way that is ethical and aware and inspired and true to what shamanism was meant to be? And so these are all of our intentions for today's conversation, and so I hope that, as we move forward, you can keep your heart open and your mind open as we dive into what is shamanism, because Christine Chantel and myself certainly use this as the foundation of our practices, and it is an incredible experience when we're able to engage with these shamanic techniques and connect with our spirit guides and unlock our clairvoyance and all of these different aspects that we'll dive into today. But I wanted to introduce this topic so that we have a really solid sacred space in which to have this conversation today.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Thanks for kicking us off so much, isabel. Like I feel very much like this is so much part of my everyday life, and part of that is really understanding shamanism as a way of expression through animist eyes, and so that is such a core element of shamanism and so we need to understand both. And because when we can understand animism, that all things are energy and that we can relate to all things, whether they're animate or inanimate, whether they physical, structured objects in nature versus animals, versus the sky, versus like, everything has its own energy and consciousness is really where I feel like shamanism can be expressed through.

Speaker 2:

I was watching a little cartoon with my daughter yesterday and it was, it was, it was the setting was in the spirit world and it's I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's what we were watching legend of Cora, and it's based on, you know, the, the avatar cartoon, and the premise of the show was basically there's this man who steps into spirit world and he's combative with all of these spirits. And I just said, well, he's got it, he's got to wake up to like understanding the spirit of the tree and the spirit of the, the water and the like, not just spirits like, not just these different entities, but the spirit of the land, the spirit of the sky, like. Once he figured that out, then he became an ally in nature instead of an oppositional. And I feel like we as humans go through the same transition of are we combating our energy with nature, with objects, with spirit, or are we coming to a place of being in harmony and communicative with like? So if I stub my toe on my desk, instead of cursing the desk, I say thank you so much for taking whatever needed to be released in that moment, at this part of my body that needed to go away. I thank the desk.

Speaker 2:

And so it's just a very different understanding and relationship with the world when you start having this animist connection of understanding that all things are energy. And so when you see things whether that is a bald eagle in the sky, which I do on a regular basis, or yesterday I was driving and saw two moose on this back country road, like why, why, why was that experience available for me to witness and experience? And what messages is the universe trying to convey through this animist perspective? And all of that is tied up in shamanism. One way to interpret shamanism is to being that seer through the veil to walk in between worlds, and when you have those animus eyes, that's exactly what you're doing. And there's all these different techniques to help you understand and get there and you can just start witnessing, witnessing your life from a different perspective and understanding that all things are showing up for reason and purpose. And why is that? What's the purpose here? What's the lesson, what's the learnings?

Speaker 1:

And this is the beautiful thing about animism is that if we look back to the roots of not just our culture or our society, but our species, right, homo sapiens, if we look back to our origins and to thousands of years ago and we look at how we were interacting with nature, this is really where animism comes from. This idea that all things are animate is it comes from our roots, right, and our ancestors, and this idea that when we were so connected to nature right, we weren't living in a box, driving to work in a box, working in a box. We were rooted, we were connected to nature, and when we had this experience of physically being one with the earth and being one with nature, we were open to hearing those vibrations and the messages and the wisdom that nature had. And so animism naturally rose up from this physical connection that we had. And so, from this perspective, animism is this idea that everything has consciousness, right. And so when we look at the original animist or shamanic teachings, they talk about the stone spirits or the animal spirits or the plant spirits, and we all have this connection to nature that we understand.

Speaker 1:

But animus took it to another level, where it wasn't a belief system, it's not a religion, it's a way of perceiving the world as being alive, this idea that everything around you is alive and has wisdom and purpose. And that consciousness, that awareness, might be very different than human consciousness. Right, plants aren't conscious the way that humans are conscious. That wasn't what the animists believed, but they believed that they had their own kind of consciousness or animacy. And so when we can connect with them, when we connect with the tree or with the rocks or with the fox or with whatever's showing up, we do so in a way that takes out the hierarchy. And this, to me, is my favorite part of animism is this idea that when we step into seeing the world with animist eyes and witnessing it as being alive, we step into a space where there is no longer a hierarchy between man and nature, because we recognize that we are nature, we are one with the plants and with the animals and with the rocks, and so animism was really at the forefront of our society before this hierarchical perspective came in, and it taught us that, rather than needing to master nature or needing to be ahead, or needing to forge these boxes that we drive to work in, or these houses or whatever it is, before mastering nature, we knew that we needed to be one with it, that we were here to serve and support each other, and that by doing so, we could connect with a more holistic way of healing. And so nature was this incredibly healing resource to an animist and therefore to a shaman, because shamanism is really as we'll talk about in a minute it's really this practice of applied animism. When you see the world as alive, when you understand that everything has spirit and therefore everything has existence in the spirit realms, and you apply that into how can we then use this knowledge to connect with spirit in a tangible way, to connect with nature in a tangible way? That's where you get shamanism, and we'll talk about that more in a minute.

Speaker 1:

But I really just want to highlight this idea with animism that there isn't a hierarchy, that we are all one and we are all supporting each other, and that is really, I think, the foundation of the perspective that we need to step into in order to be able to understand shamanism, because one of the key ideas with shamanism is that we have to let go of our egos. Right, for our Reiki practitioners in the house, this is going to sound really, really familiar, but it's this idea that we have to let go of our ego, because a lot of shamanic teachings taught that if you step into an egoic space, your power would be removed, or your power animal would leave, or your spirit guide would leave, et cetera, et cetera. Right, and so it was this idea that we need to always be in this place of humility. And this makes total sense when we are looking at it from this animist perspective, because the moment that we start to say that we are better than nature, or that we know more than nature, et cetera, et cetera, we've stepped away from believing that we are all one into believing that there's a hierarchy again, and however you choose to see that in your own practice, right, hierarchy might not resonate for everybody, but this idea that we are somehow separate from nature, or better or more evolved, or what have you and animus really believed? That we all have reason and purpose?

Speaker 1:

And something that I don't think gets talked about a lot when we bring animism to the table, but I think is such a beautiful way of explaining it is. We all know about the tree of life, right? This is a really beautiful symbol that we see across many different spiritual ideologies and it even shows up in Reiki sometimes. Right, we have this visual of our tree of life, but when we look at this from a shamanic perspective, what the tree of life really was was this direct embodiment of Mother Earth, this direct manifestation of Mother Earth with its roots in the lower world that sprouted up and carried the energy of all living things Again, not just people, but animals and plants and rocks and everything in nature. And in that trunk that rises up into the middle world it starts to branch off right.

Speaker 1:

And so if you visualize a tree for me and you think about those main branches that start to come off of the main trunk, what shamans see those main branches as is what's called an oversoul or the energy of an entire species. So there's the branch for plant with a capital P and animal with a capital A, and rock with a capital R, and human with a capital H, et cetera. And as you go down these main branches they start to branch off a little bit more right Into the different kinds of plant or the different kinds of animal, and each animal has its own thicker branch. So fox with a capital F has its own thicker branch, and then it branches off even more until you get down to those individual leaves, and each individual leaf is an individual being, so an individual fox or an individual rose or an individual person.

Speaker 1:

And what I love about this is it really shows this unity that we have, this flow that we have, and I encourage you, if you've never thought of the tree of life in this way, please go do your research on it, because it's fascinating and such a beautiful metaphor for life and how we see things when we step into a shamanic perspective. But it really shows that at our core, not just that we're one and we're connected in this loose oh isn't that nice? Kind of way, but in this really palpable way of we are all connected to the same trunk and we all come from the same roots. And so when we step into this perspective, it gives us this understanding of unity, but it also gives us this taste of humility, because if we think about how we are all each of us listening to this podcast we are all an individual leaf on that tree. The experience of a leaf on a tree on a lower branch right, that's closer to the ground and more covered in shade, is going to be completely different than the experience of a leaf on the top of the tree closest to the sun, that's covered in light, and so it brings this awareness of yes, we are all one and we all have our own experience and our own purpose and our own reason for being part of this tree, and it gives us this permission to step into a space where we recognize that we are here to serve and support.

Speaker 1:

Right. Every leaf feeds the larger tree and provides nourishment to the tree itself, and every leaf has to do that in its own way, because the way that a leaf in the shade collects nourishment and the way that a leaf in the sun collects nourishment is going to be completely different. And so it's this really beautiful analogy for life in showing us how connected we are, but also in honoring our own journeys and when we can step into that perspective. That's really where shamanism has its roots, is in this idea of. Can we use this understanding to know that we are spirit? We are one, and can we therefore find these techniques that are inherent to our spiritual nature as a way of connecting with nature and spirit more tangibly?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Well, and I think this is really interesting. What brings up for me is that there is a cultural perspective oftentimes in these indigenous cultures Like my neighbor has spent years and years and years in Mongolia and of course the mountain has its own personality and gifts to bring forward, right, like it's a cultural understanding. And so the quote unquote the shaman in that culture comes forward as the one who's easiest to see beyond the veil, right. So animism is like the perspective that can be understood by a culture, by the society, but then there's also the one that is spiritually gifted. That kind of helps the community, the people in which they serve, understand the meaning and how to interpret, sometimes right, and so they definitely go hand in hand.

Speaker 2:

And when we go back historically of why there was a shaman, it was that the shaman could help understand the migratory paths of the animals. They could help understand what plants were safe and were not safe, what plants to combine together, where they were susceptible to attack or how to protect their community. You know, like they had these whispers of wisdom, right, they had this understanding of connecting with the power of nature, with spirit, with these power animals to understand how can they serve their community and how can they support the community and and and so in that way it was a survival technique, right, when religion did not exist and we only had nature and there wasn't the hierarchical system, those that were easy to walk through these different realms gave wisdom to the community of the rains are coming, or, or putting together a ceremony to call forth the rains, or whatever it may be. They were, they were an inter integral part of community and leaned onto for their wisdom. So if someone was sick, they could go and do a journey to what plants are going to help, like.

Speaker 2:

I find it really fascinating because science is now catching up. Like there are certain, there are certain plants out in the wilderness, where it's like there's the white man's beard, this, this moss that grows on the trees Right, and the indigenous knows, okay, if I drink that tea, it's gonna help my cough right. And now the science is backing it up If you drink this tea, it's going to help your cough right, and so what I find most fascinating oftentimes is that so much of these shamanic perspectives, these animist perspectives. We now have science catching up, there's now proof. Well, yeah, that plant helps with this ailment, and now we have the science there. But why did these shamans, why do these indigenous cultures, why did these people who believed in animism understand it thousands of years ago, when the science wasn't there to prove it? And now we add the whole other layer of quantum physics on top of this and it's like they knew all of this. They knew all of this for thousands and thousands of years and I just find that beautiful.

Speaker 2:

And so you know, I think there's a difference between Isabel and I. Like I don't really get caught up in the science, like I don't. Honestly, I don't care that much, because I'm like, why, like they knew it all along? I'll just go study with them with this idea of how do I connect, how do I go deeper into my journey state to get my, my wisdom, and, and that's okay, and I think that's uh, you know, I love having a team like this, where Isabel's really into the sciences and really wants to like understand all those intricate details, and I'm just like, eh, I think I love that because it gives us dynamic of of you know how we teach and how we bring things together, and permission for you to be like what interests you, what, what, what do you gravitate toward, towards? And and whatever, whatever spectrum you're on in that, in that way it's okay. There's not one way to do spirituality right. And I think this is an invitation to go like let's lean into it and go.

Speaker 2:

What would it feel like, from an animus eyes, to perceive your day? What would that feel like? Does it feel good? Does it give you understanding? Does it give you dynamic appreciation for what is going on around you? When you look at it from animist eyes, so like if something breaks in my house, I don't necessarily get upset, I'm like, huh, I wonder why the faucet is leaking. How does that represent something in my life? Like that is where my brain goes, because I think everything is symbolic, because I think everything is symbolic and that's part of animism is that we look around our life and going okay, so my house is really full of stuff, full of excess, full of heaviness.

Speaker 2:

Maybe there's something that I haven't processed yet and I'm now feeling heavy and stuck and everything is, is, and so, for example, I I just bought a new desk. I needed a bigger desk. I have these boxes from when I moved a year ago that still haven't been put away and I've been avoiding it. Right, and as soon as I opened up the boxes and saw all these police reports from like 15 years ago, I was like, oh, this is why I've been avoiding doing this. I have junk and stuff that has been sitting with me in this box for years and unprocessed and going. My son is now 18.

Speaker 2:

I don't, I no longer need to keep court case files and police reports and all of this heaviness and I can now fully release it. And I can, as I release the physical, I'm releasing the energetic within me. How do I want to do that? Do I just want to go put it through a shredder? Do I want to go burn it, like? All of those are options, but the point is I can feel the heaviness within this box and know that it's time to release it and process it, and in my physical body, in my physical container of myself and my house, it's going to feel lighter. So we step in, we lean in, we say, okay, I understand this. What else? What else needs to be released so I can feel lighter and more in alignment without that heaviness baggage from my past.

Speaker 1:

And this is really to jump back to something that you were saying earlier this really was part of the role of the shaman within their culture and within their tribe, and it's also part of why we don't call ourselves shamans, right? We call ourselves shamanic practitioners, and so I kind of want to take us down a little winding answer to this one. But to go back to what you were saying about the science of things, I think the reason that I find it so fascinating is in spirituality in general, things like the chakras and our neural connections and all of this. I do find the science fascinating, but when it comes to shamanism in particular, part of the reason that I love bringing in some of the scientific perspectives is because, as a culture right our culture today we have learned to put so much emphasis on our intellect and on our mind's perspective of things and on knowing the facts, believe that the more people can lean into this animist perspective or into this more holistic and harmonized way of living amongst nature, the easier our lives will be and the easier your personal experience will be. And so, for me, this idea of blending the science and spirituality specifically around shamanism is so powerful because there are so many people who, I think, would turn away from these ideas if we didn't have also the scientific facts to back them up. And so this is part of bridging that gap of understanding that, as shamans would have in their culture and in their tribe, that we have to walk between the worlds, we have to be able to understand where our culture is now and also know where that truth with a capital T lies, so that we can help to maintain that energy and maintain that understanding.

Speaker 1:

And this is part of what a shaman would do in their tribe is, in addition to being this person who had profound spiritual gifts and awareness and power, they were also, in a way, the truth keeper for their culture and their tribe, in that they could walk between the realms, right, they could see the stories that their culture was telling them and they understood that a culture is built on the stories that we tell ourselves, right, society is built on the stories that we en masse tell ourselves. And so they could see these stories and they could enter into the spirit realms and see what was true with a capital T. And they were able to blend the two in a way that when someone was lost, whether that was mentally lost or physically lost in an illness or what have you, they could help bring them back. And so they were these keepers of truth and what is sometimes called sanity in a lot of these teachings, this idea that when someone loses themselves, when someone loses their truth, the shaman was there to bring them back, and so they were able to see through that darkness of being lost, see through the darkness of the fake stories that we tell ourselves, and be able to help align us back to the truth and with nature. And so, for me, I think this is one of the ways that science can help align us back to the truth and with nature, and so, for me, I think this is one of the ways that science can help align us with our own nature. Is, you know, even things like in shamanic traditions, the trees were called the standing beings, which I think is just so beautiful this idea that they have found this perfect balance between being rooted into mother earth, standing tall in their own experience, and then reaching above towards Father Sky, or the heavens, or the divine, or whatever you want to call it. They found this perfect balance and they just stood, they just embodied their experience, and now we have science telling us that no trees actually do communicate through their roots and they have their own language and they're able to talk to each other for all intents and purposes, and that's astounding right when we look at it from a scientific perspective. But then we can root it back into. Like Christine was saying, this has been known for thousands and thousands of years. So if this is true, what else might be true? And this is where I do want to put a little bit of a caveat on this conversation of why we don't call ourselves shamans, even though we're using that word in this conversation.

Speaker 1:

We had a really interesting conversation in our community a few weeks back about the use of the word shaman and how it's culturally appropriative, and there's something that I want to put here. When we look at the definition of cultural appropriation, it is one culture taking on traits of another culture without permission, and it's particularly harmful, right if it's a culture on traits of another culture without permission, and it's particularly harmful, right if it's a culture that's a majority taking on attributes of a minority culture. But the word shaman is actually seen across the world, across timelines, across geography, in many different cultures, many different tribes. It is, in a lot of ways, a universal word. It has its roots in the Siberian culture with the word saman, s-a-m-a-n, but it evolved and it's something that we see across cultures.

Speaker 1:

But when we're looking at the word shaman, there were also many different titles for this right. We hear about medicine, women or men, about witch doctors, healers, sorcerers, spirit healers, magicians, seers, etc. We have all these different words for it, but the reason that we use the word shaman to discuss shamanism is because that's what it is. Someone who practices shamanism in their culture was called the shaman. But the reason that we don't call ourselves shamans is because a shaman was this incredibly sacred and honored title that was given to you by your tribe, and it's never something that a shaman would claim for themselves. And so, even as we're having this conversation about where does that word come from, we're also recognizing that it's never something that was claimed. It was something that was given, and that was given through a process of selection from your tribe, whether that was hereditary or you were trained, or the divine chose you right. There are a lot of accounts of being struck by lightning or having prophetic dreams. There were a series of criteria that the tribe would use, and then you go through these initiation and integration rites and rituals to finally be proclaimed a shaman, and so there is this awareness that we're having here.

Speaker 1:

The reason we're using the word shaman in this conversation is because everybody knows that word and it is this universal word that we see across time and space, but we're using it with the understanding that we ourselves are not shamans. We are shamanic practitioners because we are calling on these techniques and these tools that we see again across cultures and time and space, which we'll talk about in a second. We are calling on these and using them in our spiritual practices, but we are not a shaman. We have not been chosen by our tribe, we have not undergone those rites and rituals, we are not claiming that honor that would have to be given to us. And so there is a really firm line here. And this again goes back to part of our intention. This conversation is how can we practice and connect with shamanism ethically? And I think this is a really good point to talk about how modern shamanism or Western shamanism or neo-shamanism or whatever you want to call it, really developed. And so this happened in the 1970s and 80s.

Speaker 1:

There was an anthropologist named Michael Harner and modern shamanism, or Western shamanism as we know it today, would not be what it was without the work of anthropologists like Michael Harner. But he was an anthropologist, he was not quote-unquote woo in any way, shape or form, and he went to go work with shamanic cultures in the Amazon in the Peruvian Amazon and the Ecuadorian Amazon, and as he began to study their cultures, he began to experience a lot of the rituals and rites and ceremonies that these shamanic cultures had, and he slowly became aware that there was truth to these, that there was power to these techniques, and both of those cultures that he practiced in, the Hivaro and the Kanabo tribes, invited him in to become part of their tribe to learn these practices, and then was specifically given instruction and permission to bring these practices back to the West. And so from this experience, this collecting of data from these tribes, and then the personal experience of it, where he was initiated into these pathways of learning, he was able to bring back what's called core shamanism. And so core shamanism is this collection of teachings that are universal to shamanic tribes, regardless of geography, time, when they originated, how they originated, any of it. It is a set of shamanic techniques that, because of its variance, the fact that it sprung up across the world regardless of time or place. We can extrapolate that to understand that they are just universal, instinctive, inherent ways that we connect with nature, when we are seeing nature through animist eyes.

Speaker 1:

And so not only are we looking at these core units of shamanism right which again takes us out of the realm of cultural appropriation, because we're not calling on one tribe or one culture's way of practicing shamanism we're looking at what are the things that are true throughout all of them, not just some of them, but truly all of them and receiving the permission and the invitation from these tribes, through Michael Harner and other anthropologists like him, like Carlos Castaneda and Alberto Vildo, bringing these back and sharing them with the West, because of anthropologists and practitioners like Michael Harner, who went and studied with the tribes and with the cultures, were invited into that space, welcomingly and given permission to bring them back.

Speaker 1:

And that's where we see what we know as core shamanism or neo-shamanism in the West today is this collection of trainings and techniques of how to connect with nature that are universal to all things, with this understanding that we are of nature and so, therefore, this way of connecting with nature is our birthright, because it is universal and we can connect again with that tree of life, understanding that we are all one and that these teachings are available for all of us.

Speaker 1:

And so, on all levels of this conversation, we have brought forward shamanism, for the most part right, as long as we're doing it with intention and awareness, and ethically right If we're following in the footsteps of these anthropologists and these spiritual practitioners. We have brought forward shamanism in a way that is ethical and it is aware and it is honoring our roots and allowing those things that are culturally specific to remain that way and to remain sacred and to not claim ourselves as shamans, et cetera, et cetera, understanding that there are some things that are sacred and that are not for us. But these things that are able to come through in an ethical and an aware way can we bring those through? And we have brought those through in a way that is holistic and welcoming and open and really just returning to our roots of understanding that we are all one and this is how we connect to nature and spirit in a tangible way.

Speaker 2:

And I love that so much because when we can understand that we are of nature, we have just the same amount of capacity to connect with nature as anyone else. Nature doesn't belong to any one individual or tribe or like. We're all part of it. And I think this is why you know, there's such a surgence of paganism and Wiccan rituals and those types of things. Cause we're there's this striving to get back to our roots, of connection with nature. And when we are connected to nature, when we see ourselves one with nature, that I am just important as a snake that I see or I'm just at, like, my energy is equal to these elements of nature, what happens is that your mindset shifts, you change, you become more energetically aware of your effect on nature. And isn't that I'm like, isn't that beautiful? And the fact that when I can approach nature in this way, nature benefits. If we can all connect to nature and this understanding of I am nature, I am one with nature, I'm connected to nature, I wouldn't I behavior changes because you wouldn't do anything, you strive not to to do harm to nature and you respect nature in a different way. And so when, even if like, for example, if you go hunting as an animist as an understanding of I'm one with the deer and I'm one with the things that I am out on the hunt for. I can also see that I'm willing to understand that it is sacrificing itself for the benefit of my community and I'm not doing it in a way that is harmful to nature, but in balance with nature. And so there's your, your understanding, your perception changes so that you're in unison with nature, and I feel like that would benefit nature, that would benefit everyone. If we started leaning into animist eyes. It benefits. It benefits the whole world, it benefits the river, it benefits the air, it benefits everyone. When we say that I am, no, I'm, I'm not more important than we have such a ingrained societal hierarchy of I'm, better than nature and my job is to dominate nature and and extract what it from nature, whatever I need, right. So when we can say you know what, that actually doesn't benefit the world as we know it and we start seeing ourselves in unison with nature, our behavior changes and that benefits the world.

Speaker 2:

And so I love seeing the historical understanding. I love understanding how core shamanism came to be and these anthropologists. It wasn't like they went and studied for a year, it was decades. It was decades of training, acceptance, working with. It wasn't just this, you know, summer internship, it was. It was really in-depth practices and where they're they're doing ceremonies that they would take on for their own Indigenous people right. So knowing that, they experienced it, lived with for years and years and then got the permission to bring it West, to bring these understandings.

Speaker 2:

West is in my mind, and you can disagree with me, and that's okay. In my mind, that was the piece of it that says the world is going to benefit if we understand nature and its spiritual connection, and in a really balanced way. And what will the world look like if more people in the West understood this connection? How would that benefit the world? And so I feel oftentimes when you hear of like what's the seven generations ahead of you, I'm breaking the cycle and saying like, I appreciate nature, I'm in love with nature, I am one with nature and in that fact I am the you know seven generations ago. Maybe I am their prayers answered. And what does that feel like? If I can pass this wisdom on to my students, to my children, to my clients, how is this going to benefit the world? Versus what society, the institutional systems are offering the world that we're dominant. I don't want to be dominant to nature. I want to be with nature, in nature, in unison with nature.

Speaker 2:

And when I'm there, it's funny. My dad says that weird things happen when I'm around. I'm there, you know, it's funny. Like my dad says that weird things happen when I'm around. I'm like, yeah, it is, it does Right. Like I'll go connect with a tree in nature and the next thing I know I have a deer entering my campsite just to hang out right Like these, quote unquote weird things happen all the time for me and it is always after me connecting into nature in a really deep way and giving gratitude, giving off, making an offering, doing something where I am witnessing myself. Be, say, tree, you're no better than I am Like, or I'm no better than you Like. We're equal, and I appreciate your strength, your roots, your branches, the oxygen that you give and the place in which I can walk and witness nature around you. It's all. I'm so in deep gratitude for you. Tree, thank you for being here. And then the next moment, I have miracles showing up in my mind and then giving an appreciation for that, and then it just continues in that, and so part of this is slowing down. How can we slow down to witness nature around us? I have an ancestor, an ancestor guide, and that's always her message to me and you know, that's always her. Her message to me is you know, she had, you know, all day to butcher a deer and that's all she was going to do, whatever it was Right and how.

Speaker 2:

Our lives are so jam packed with hour by hour appointments with I have to run and do this, and then I have to do this and I have to do this and I have to go to the grocery store. Like the world, our world, has changed so incredibly much, even over the last hundred years, 200 years, 300 years, that we have come out of balance with nature. Is it because we wear synthetic shoes and we literally have a piece of plastic between us and nature? Possibly, is it because we no longer get our food from a garden and we and our children oftentimes don't know where carrots come from or how to grow them?

Speaker 2:

Possibly, like I, noticed that we are in a heightened state of this separation and then, at the same exact time as we were getting synthetic shoes, we also had these anthropologists doing this deep work to bring forward. So I just, I just am aware and I just notice, I just noticed like I don't think that there there's that's coincidence. I feel like everything happened on the timeline for reason and purpose. Coincidence. I feel like everything happened on the timeline for reason and purpose and I, for me, I know and believe that I'm on the timeline that's best for me and my community and my family knowing that we are cultivating a connection with nature once again and this is again, this is the invitation in this conversation, right?

Speaker 1:

We could have taken this conversation so many different ways, knowing that shamanism has so many different ways of being perceived and there isn't one definition of shamanism that is universally agreed. This idea of shamanism being rooted in animism is almost universally acknowledged, right, but the idea of trying to define shamanism is so much more than just an hour-long conversation, right. Those anthropologists who went and studied with the tribes, or even in our own shamanic learnings study for decades, and even the most well-known and recognized shamans, understand that understanding shamanism doesn't happen. It's not something for us in a single lifetime or even in many lifetimes. It is a constant relationship with spirit and with nature and learning and evolving and expanding into this acceptance. And so we could have explored the pillars of shamanism, right, we could have talked about shamanic consciousness and the journeys and the different realms and our spirit helpers and the drumming and the four directions and vision quests and soul retrieval right, we could have gone into all of these pillars and, by all means, if you want us to explore those in another podcast, let us know, because they're so valuable and important to understand, but I think this way of looking at shamanism is of the utmost importance this idea of can we first step into awareness, can we first come into that space where we don't first have that foundation, none of the other aspects of shamanism are going to align or sink in or be as accessible to us, because they are so firmly rooted in this understanding that we are all one, that we are the truth keepers, that we are able to connect with nature, to connect with spirit in this way. And this is part of why it's so important to establish that balance that we were talking about a moment ago, of honoring our roots and our origins but also looking forward to the future.

Speaker 1:

Because, like Christine was saying and we talked about this in a recent episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast with Paul Francis, he's an anthropologist and a shamanic teacher and we touch on this topic but this idea that the modern world has shifted so much that our lives now are so different than our lives were thousands, hundreds, tens of years ago, right, hundreds, tens of years ago, right when we were connected with nature, when these shamanic tribes were practicing. And so we are in this space where we are called to recognize our origins right, lean into that root chakra perspective, if you will, of honoring our ancestors and the wisdom that they brought forward and where we have come from and where shamanism originated, while also understanding that we also have this crown chakra perspective, this opportunity to look ahead to those seven generations, like Christine was saying, to look to our future and look at what needs to be different. How do these perspectives need to shift? How can we welcome in an understanding of again, as the role of the shaman or the shamanic practitioner was to hold the truth for that culture, to understand where we were going and how we can align more with the spiritual truth? How can we align our culture as it is now, our modern day human experience? What is needed to shift us back into alignment? How are these practices going to need to evolve or expand, our perspective shift in order to bring us back into that alignment? And so these practices going to need to evolve or expand, or our perspectives shift in order to bring us back into that alignment.

Speaker 1:

And so there's this balance that's inherent in this practice, too, of again being able to walk between the worlds and understand these spiritual techniques and where they've come from, and this idea of animism and this, knowing that we are one with nature and being able to walk in this human realm and see all that is happening, but instead of being caught up in it and thinking that we have to fix it or that it's our responsibility, understanding that we have an opportunity right, it's an opportunity, not a burden to be able to step forward and say how can we use this perspective, how can we bring these tools in to align us back to the truth, to bring us back to our true nature, to connect us with nature, with a capital N right. And this is really, at the end of the day, this is what shamanism is, even if we haven't discussed the actual techniques. It is this ability to connect with nature, with the inherent understanding that we are nature and that, by coming back to our roots and understanding this truth about ourselves and our connection, that we will then engage with spirit, that we can then talk with spirit and touch spirit and receive from spirit and give to spirit, and et cetera, et cetera, heal with spirit, both on an individual level and on the level of our entire community. That we have this opportunity, but only when we step into that space where we understand that we are one and that we are willing and open and ready to have the humility to understand that this isn't something we can learn in a single podcast or in a single year or in a single course. This is a lifelong journey and experience. And when we can step into that openness of saying I'm ready to learn and I know that my perspective today right, even in this conversation, if Christine and I have this conversation again at this time next year, we'll probably have slightly different perspectives because we're welcoming in this understanding that we are always growing and learning and evolving.

Speaker 1:

And when we step into that space of understanding, I'm ready to receive what is best for me in this moment. I am ready to step into action for what is best for nature in this moment. We are suddenly in this incredibly beautiful and harmonized and balanced way of living life that is at the root of shamanism. This idea of how can we bring in that balance is really what shamanism is. It is a practice of applying these animistic perspectives into our daily life so that we can come back into balance with our truth and with the truth of nature and allow all of these different elements and aspects of nature to harmonize and to be able to serve their purpose without encroaching on another's purpose or without taking away from our own right. It's this ability to welcome in this oneness with all, in order to reestablish that balance and harmony. And that's what shamanism is from my perspective.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm like I don't know what else to add to that Cause that that that was a really great. I really loved this conversation. And to come back to around to, if you hear of people calling themselves a shaman, that's a red flag, right, like we would never call ourselves shamans, shamans, even historical shamans. You know it was a title given by the community and it's an egoic statement. And oftentimes if you say I am a shaman, the spirits are going to take it away, they're going to take away your gifts. Way, they're going to take away your gifts. They're, they're, they're, they're not looking at, um, if you are, if you're making those types of claims, uh, that is, that is one way to to strip you of your, your energetic understandings and power. And so you know, we are shamanic practitioners, we use the tools, the techniques that have been given to us by spirit. And you know, in my own way, like just to kind of show you my connection with these anthropologists, with these founders of, you know, core shamanism, you know, my original teacher was taught by Sandra Ingerman. Original teacher was taught by Sandra Ingerman and she, sandra Ingerman, came to my town in the 1990s and I was, I was, you know, I was still a kid back then, but the people who have trained me how to shamanic journey trained with Sandra, ingerman and um, and so I learned how to shamanic journey at the age of like 24, 25. And it's been a part of my spiritual world ever since. It made me a better Reiki practitioner, knowing how to shamanic journey. I also have a shamanic mentor who was trained by Michael Harner and was part of Harner's Institute up until he died, and so I have her perspective. You know and you know. And then the more I stepped into my trainings, my my continued learning, more perspectives came in, more shamanic practitioners came in. So I have another mentor who lives in New Zealand and I received her shamanic practitioners came in. So I have another mentor who lives in New Zealand and I received her shamanic perspective. And and the the list continues, and this is why I love continuous study.

Speaker 2:

And also, spirit trains me. I just wanted like full stop right there, like spirit trains me. So if there's something that they want me to learn, spirit trains me. So if there's something that they want me to learn, I will get a set of clients for a set amount of time with all the same issue, using a shamanic technique until they feel like, all right, you've got this, now go teach it. And this happens again and again and again for the last decade.

Speaker 2:

And so I recognize that I am in unison with this overarching spiritual mission of why I'm on this earth right now and having this such clear communication, even though it might come in confusing like what the heck are they trying to teach me? What's the lesson here? I need to learn it I. Those are the types of questions I start asking right away when, when things come forward. What's the lesson in learnings? What do you want me to? What am I supposed to extrapolate from the situation? And especially when I have client after client after client with the same issue, doing the shamanic journey to understand the best approach for their healing is oftentimes how the techniques come through.

Speaker 2:

For me, it's not like our soul rising. Shamanic training came from someone else's book. It came from decades of working with spirit and having them train me what they want me to teach. And so I. I love what I do, I love how I do it, I love the lessons that I learned, no matter how easy or difficult they may seem at the time. It's part of who I am and it's part of.

Speaker 2:

Don't get energetically swayed on. Is this culture, appropriation, or am I doing something right and like? Well, spirit has told me again and again and again this is what they want from me, this is my life's purpose. And so here I am, showing up in divine accordance and this divine timing as we move into a new age of understanding and the new age of the world, and at the very difficult time in the world, right Like I don't think you've probably heard me say this on other podcasts Earth is not a vacation.

Speaker 2:

We are here to do some really heavy work and to transmute it, and this is the time that is most needed to transmute the heaviness within our homes, within our bodies, within our psyches and within our spirit.

Speaker 2:

Because if we can do that, the earth's vibrational energy will also rise and we will feel lighter. We'll not only survive but we'll thrive, and that is why I'm here, that is why I do what I do, and I get reminders of this big mission and purpose all the time, and I'm I'm so ever grateful for, for being here on earth. Once again, like again and again and again, I return and I feel like everything all of the lifetimes I've had up until this point has prepared me for this lifetime and my my goal and understanding this lifetime is I not to be small, not to shy away to but be my in my full energy, to be in my full purpose and mission and to support others in understanding theirs. And so here we are, and so here we are. So thank you for being here and witnessing us in this conversation and the way we understand things, and I hope this gives you permission, too, to understand who you are and connection with nature and how you want to move forward in your life.

Speaker 1:

And so this is again, this is the invitation for you all of knowing, knowing that there's so much more we can share on this right. We can touch on how we've come to know these topics, we can touch on the techniques themselves, we can touch on what it's like to learn directly from spirit, and we can share about those that we've studied with and how our lineage is connected to those who came before us and all of these topics, but knowing that, at the end of the day, we're going to come back to this understanding that when we can step into this awareness, when we can work with spirit and work with nature, that we will be naturally aligned with our inherent purpose and our inherent passion. And so, christine and I's purpose in this lifetime was today, in this moment, to bring this perspective forward and to share it with you all. And so, as Christine said, thank you all for the honor and the privilege of your listening time, and I hope that this conversation inspired you to explore shamanism for yourself and come into a deeper understanding of nature and of healing and of spirit in your own way, knowing that, if you want us to dive deeper into those tools and techniques and perspectives and how we trained and how we teach and why we do it that way, that we are more than happy to. But I hope that this conversation gave you a really solid foundation for knowing the perspective of what shamanism is and how we have to approach this work in order to be in that unity and in that harmony with all things, knowing that when we do that, spirit reveals itself and our souls reveal themselves and nature reveals themselves.

Speaker 1:

And that's our invitation to you is to step into this perspective, to lean into what would your life be like if you were connected and if life were magical and if you were one with nature? And how can you begin to look around you and see how spirit is speaking to you, how nature is speaking to you, how everything is speaking to you, how everything is symbolic. What would that be like? And can we invite you to step into that perspective for an hour a day a week and just see what happens if you allow everything in your life to be important, to be speaking to you, to have a message and a wisdom and a learning for you. Can you step into that perspective and, if you choose to, we welcome you to share with us your experience in our Moon Rising Shamanic Mystics Facebook group, knowing that we can continue this conversation Because, again, like Christine said, this is lifetimes and lifetimes and lifetimes of learning and sharing and expanding together, and so that is our invitation to you with this podcast. I hope that it has brought some inspiration and insight. We would love to hear your top takeaways in our Facebook group. You can also check out our YouTube channel for more videos and tips and tricks.

Speaker 1:

And until next time, as always, thank you so much for the honor and privilege of your time, and may you awaken to those whispers of wisdom rising from within. Whispers of wisdom rising from within. Thanks for tuning in to today's show. The Wisdom Rising podcast is sponsored by Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, facebook, youtube and TikTok at Moon Rising Institute, or visit our website, moonrisinginstitutecom to learn more about our mission and find future opportunities to connect with our community of shamanic mystics. Once again, thank you for sharing space with us today, and until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.